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If I were to ask a Byzantine Catholic if they were saved, or if they har a personal relationship with Jesus; how would they respone?
Blessings,
CHAPH

I believe a Byzantine Catholic would answer the same as a Latin Catholic or Orthodox Christian, and say that we are in the process of being saved, and the process will not be completed until we go to be with the Lord.

As for a personal relationship with our Saviour, I don't think you can get any closer then receiving his true body and blood in Holy Communion.

Given the fact that many Protestants I know think they are saved and no sin they commit will ever change that, I often say I am not saved. I am still accountable for my actions. But I know what they are saying, I just think that the "once saved, always saved" philosophy denies free will. We are always free to reject Christ. Hopefully, none of us will ever do it, but we could because we still have free will. I think most of us Catholics, Eastern and Latin, view salvation as a process that starts at baptism and ends at death. As far as a personal relationship with Christ, you can have as close a relationship with him as you want. Christ is open to it, it's up to you how closely you draw near to Him.

As an Orthodox, I would say that I am going to continue trying to be 'saved' throughout my life, through constant repentance, confession, prayer, and partaking of Holy Communion.

I would say, that as a human being, I am prone to falling, but it is not how many times I fall, but how many times I get up again.I would say that God loves humility, and that because of that humility, I can never assume that I am saved.

It is His mercy that will save me, a sinner who is living a life of constant spiritual struggle.

I pray that I will have a good account before His awesome judgement seat, and that I will attain Heaven. Then, with all assurity, I will be saved!

With love for our Lord and Saviour,
Alice

Welcome, chaphenderson!

Byzantine Catholics � indeed, all Catholic and Orthodox Christians � would respond that we are both saved and being saved. We see salvation as a process rather than a one time event.

I am saved because I profess Christ and have been joined to him in Holy Baptism.

I am being saved, as I am (hopefully) growing into Christ through the sacramental life of the Church, by receiving the Holy Mysteries.

I will be saved at the end not by anything I have done but simply by God�s mercy.

While some may not use the phrase �personal relationship with Jesus� (since it can be used to wrongly avoid the community of the Church) such a relationship is vital to salvation.

Admin

AMEN!

Administrator,

Adding my AMEN and AMEN! Your post says it all.

Thanks. Glory to God!

Mary Jo

The Excruciatingly Correct and Utterly Technical answer to that question, phrased in a professional lingo that almost no one understands (let alone uses) these days is: "No, I am not yet saved, but I do have justification." While the interrogator is trying to determine what that jargon might mean, you can make your escape.
Somebody rang me on Saturday at a moment that happened to be inconvenient (for this kind of phone call ANY moment is inconvenient) and allowed as how he wanted to know about our services. So I told him time and location. He then wanted to know what Church we belonged to - so I said "Catholic" and shut my mouth. During the silence that followed, I seriously considered hanging up the phone - and I probably should have. The caller then asked if we were of the "Greek-Roman Church". I apologized, but explained that I had never even heard of such a Church. He then asked if we belonged to the "Greek-Russian Church" I apologized again, and explained that I've never heard of that denomination either.
Such people are basically a waste of time. Let them get their own heads together.
Incognitus
P.S. It's true that in the 19th century the Russian State Church sometimes called itself the "Greek-Russian Church", but this is now the 21st century and nobody calls it that anymore. Old Ritualists would at least recognize the expression, but they will normally merely refer to the Nikonians and let it go at that.

Chaphenderson wrote:"...If I were to ask a Byzantine Catholic if they were saved, or if they har a personal relationship with Jesus..."

I would answer, yes, I have 401K and savings accounts and retirement account through my credit union and that my personal relationship with Jesus is none of your business....

JMHO...

mark

"But I know what they are saying, I just think that the "once saved, always saved" philosophy denies free will. We are always free to reject Christ. Hopefully, none of us will ever do it, but we could because we still have free will."

Are the saints in heaven still free to reject Christ and, if not, do you believe they have "free will?"

Thanks

Zadok wrote:
Are the saints in heaven still free to reject Christ and, if not, do you believe they have "free will?"

The saints in heaven are there because they NEVER rejected Christ. They lived a life spent drawing closer to God. There only desire in their freewill was to draw closer to God, to love and serve with all of their being.

I guess one could use the angle lucifer as an example of rejecting God. He is no longer there, he now enjoys the comforts of hell, fire, and brimstone.

Don't think I want to spend eternity there. I choose God my Father, Jesus my brother, and the awesome Holy Spirit, and the mansion they have for me! Wow it has to be a lot more comfortable.

Pani Rose

Zadok stated:
Are the saints in heaven still free to reject Christ and, if not, do you believe they have "free will?"

This is usually the type of question that Reformed Protestants ask to maintain their strong compatibilist or occasionalist view-points on the human will.

Basicly, this question can be answered from an Eastern or a Western framework.

The Saints in Heaven have free-will because they have a muliplicity of goods to will. They all being metaphysically the same quality, so that their is no defect in the choice.

The Eastern view would be metaphysical, the divine energies, they are infinite in number and are inexaustible. So a deified person can never run out of good things to choose.

In the Western Theological Tradition, the eschaton is epistemological, but also volitional. The Saints see the divine essence in the light of glory that radiates from the divine essence and is no less than God. Strictly speaking, then, humanity does not see the divine essence, but is granted a share in God's own self-knowledge. Ultimately, the only one who really sees God is God himself, because the vision of God's essence surpasses the nature not only of the human creature but also every other creature (ST I-II. 5, 5 resp.). The reason for this lies in how human beings know. Our knowledge is according to the mode of created substance and thus necessarily falls short of the vision of the divine essence which infinitely surpasses all created substance (ibid.) (Williams, The Ground of Union). The vision of God can only be had, therefore, according to the mode of uncreated substance--that is, through God's own light. The vision of the Divine Essence is granted to all the blessed by a partaking of the Divine light (ST III 10,4). The divine essence is utterly inexhaustible to the human intellect, and he/she can never have adequate knowledge of it. The intellect and will, through the light of glory (in thy light shall we see light(ST II II 175, 3 ad 2)), can never run out of good things to know and love in God.

Daniel

I graduated from a Baptist college and really met some wonderful people there. But being the incorrigible smart aleck that I am, I just could not resist messing with them on occasion. One day, a Baptist professor asked me if the empty seat beside me in the recital hall was saved. I replied, "only if it has been baptized." Naturally, his eyes grew wide. After that, I believe they thought I was a little subversive.

"Have you been saved?"

"Why, do I look like I've been spent?"

I never really understood that. If you are not "saved," then you are supposedly "lost." But the opposite of lost, is "found." So maybe they should ask, "are you found?"