www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Constantine - Saint or sinner? Hero or villian?

Dear all,

I am wondering what do you as Eastern Christians think of Constantine? Do you consider him a sincere believer or someone who subverted the faith for political ends?

The reason I'm asking is that in my graduate theology class, several texts we are reading cite the Constantinian peace as the beginning of the accomodation of Chrisitianity to secular power and as evidence of the "shadow side" of the faith, i.e. dominating patriarchy as manifest in ecclesiastical structures. In our class discussion, I mentioned that Constantine is revered as a saint along with his mother St. Helen. Well most in the class were stunned and said that they couldn't believe that someone who was a totalitarian and ruthless tyrant could be a "saint." I suggested that perhaps they were judging Constantine by contemporary standards and preconceptions. Let's say we disageed moreso after that. So just to make sure I am not giving misleading information out - how is Constantine regarded by Eastern Christians today?

Thank you for any input.

PAX

Benedictine

I did a 20 page research paper on the topic last year. I'd post it, but I wrote it so fast that the professor heavily criticized sections of it; it needs some editing. HOWEVER, doing the research led me to believe that Constantine originally DID see the vision of the cross, but he was still thinking paganly; his conversion was gradual, BUT SINCERE BY THE END, and that he did have the faith in Christ to call the Council of Nicea, where he ACTIVELY took part; he also was not as ruthless as some say--he stopped gladitorial games, for instance, made many reforms, etc. Yes he did have his wife and son executed--but evidence shows that they were having an affair (it was the son's stepmother), and that was a just punishment for incest at the time, etc. etc.

In Christ and St. Constantine,

anastasios

Dear Benedictine,

As for the cult of Constantine, yes he is a popular saint in the Eastern Churches, and his icon, together with his mother St Helen, has always been prominently situated in our Ukrainian Catholic Churches where he is often compared to St Volodymyr the Baptizer of Kyivan Rus'.

The fact remains that he was baptized on his death-bed by an Arian priest.

He did not really make Christianity the "official" religion of the Roman Empire, but he did order that its persecution stop, and he ordered that crucifixion be stopped as a form of public execution for non-Romans in the Empire.

The Constantinian Cross, so-called, was actually a Roman pagan emblem that was already on his soldiers' helmets.

He simply gave it a new interpretation, calling it the Cross of Christ following his vision/dream "In hoc signo vinces."

The tradition of that 8 pointed Cross continued with the British Empire whose Union Jack was simply a version of the Constantinian Cross that signified victory and conquest.

As for his "tyranny," he simply operated in accordance with the Imperial traditions of his time.

There are many Catholic Kings venerated as saints in the West who were even more "tyrannica."

For example, Blessed Charlemagne, commemorated in the Roman Calendar on January 28, was quite the tyrant.

A monk reading the scriptures at a Mass attended by the Emperor was so frightened of making a mistake, or else otherwise offending the Emperor that when a poisonous spider appeared on his shoulder, he was too afraid to even knock it off himself, and the spider stung him and he died. This happened in Aachen Cathedral.

And St Constantine IS venerated locally in the West, especially in various regions of Italy.

The Orthodox Church venerates the memory of 20 Emperors and Empresses some of whom weren't very religious, but defended and preserved the Church.

That such a one is in the calendar doesn't mean he or she has a public liturgical cult. There are grades of veneration and the lowest one is simply inclusion in the calendar with the stipulation that no public cult is to be conducted.

Then again, Pope St Pius V was, some have said, indirectly responsible for beginning the persecution of the English Catholics under Queen Elizabeth I.

The English Catholics begged him not to publicly offend their Queen. The pope went ahead and excommunicated the Queen anyway, and this started the mass persecution of the Catholics there. Again, the Queen was already Protestant and didn't need to be excommunicated . . .

St Charles Borromeo ordered his priests to reveal to him the names of anyone in Confession who admitted to heresy.

There are other examples of behaviour that we today would consider dubious and not befitting a Saint. In some ways, Constantine the Emperor was a real pussycat by comparison with other sainted kings.

One of his daughters, St Constantia (I'm not sure about her name) is one of the saints near Naples whose dried blood liquefies, just as that of St Januarius and a few others.

I guess I'm not surprised at the comments your theological comrades made on this topic.

But I've always thought of seminarians as being rather "pie in the sky" and very idealistic and politically naive about human nature and history.

What seminarians really need is a better grounding in the social sciences and with that, a better understanding of historical contexts and processes.

Emperor Saint Constantine the Great, pray unto God for us!

Alex

Perhaps this is a bit too political in its orientation, but.....

As with the Mafia, Cosa Nostra and other groups that did the Robin Hood thing for the ordinatry folks: "He may have been a bastard, but he was OUR bastard", so leave him alone.

For Greeks, St. Constantine and his wonderful mother St. Eleni, are "us". If they made mistakes or did stupid things, well: we're all human and deserving of forgiveness.

About 40 years ago the Bollandists did an exacting examination of the Western Saints and found some who were either mythic or enjoying the fruits of mythic aggrandizement and they recommended dumping them from the calendar/martyrology. (St. Christopher comes immediately to mind, as well as St. George. And they got dumped.)

We Easterns don't seem to appreciate this "scholarly" examination. Whether Saint X did this or that is not the issue: it's the lesson taught that is crucial. While this attitude flies in the face of "science/history", we just don't think that way.

We "know" about Sts. Constantine and Helen; we know what they represent; we know the lesson they teach us; and we venerate their memory. What's the problem?

Christ is Risen!!!

Thanks to all for the responses.

As for my "social location" as they say here at school, it must be pointed out that I am going to a very progressive school of theology at a Catholic university that enrolls predominately lay students. Not that in itself is necessarily bad - among the few friends I have here is a married couple, the husband being a recent convert to Catholicism. But most are "Call to Action" types.

Oh, I am not naive. I know that Constantine had some pretty major flaws. I guess I just resent his inclusion in a type of revisionist history that says that pristine Christianity was lost when the church became accepted by the dominant culture. Of course, it was a ROMAN culture - hence all things Roman (i.e. read papacy, hierarchy, a universal church etc.) are really not true to the faith. At least that's the line of thought I pick up on.

As far as questionable people being in the calendar, these students are a selectively tolerant bunch. They wrote a collect for "St." Martin Luther for All Saints' Day because he was persecuted by the Pope [TRUE STORY!].

Anyway, I guess in their eyes I'm a relic of a best forgotten age, being a monk and all. So I like to remind them that things may not be as they think and there is still some of us around. I wonder when they start their "lay ecclesial ministry" how they will be received in the parishes?

PAX

Benedictine

Even I know, if you drive by any Greek Orthodox parish during the celebration of the saint's day, the parking lot will be overflowing with cars belonging to all the Constantines of the parish.

The Name Day celebrations are delicious....literally.

God forbid...leave criticism at the door or be ready for a more than energetic tonque lashing and lesson in the "real facts" of the saint's life.

Abdur


BTW: Albanian Muslim Tosks celebrate Constantine's saint day with their Orthodox Tosk confreres and family members--intermarriage between Christians and Muslims is quite common in some regions of the Balkans --and they wouldn't think of not participating in the celebration.

In the Balkans, "black and white" reality only exists between the covers of books or in the minds of those out of touch with reality, so expecting that someone--even a saint--must be "perfect" would be considered a sign of impending insanity.

[ 04-19-2002: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

Let me guess? The students who "run" the "social dynamics" of this class are women? And the young men correctly nod their head to the female fertility goddes? No? Or am I like totaly off target here and your at a seminary? Either way can't you make them play rugby against an opposing team of steroid freaks.... and then let them lecture on the black and white attributes of fairness?

You seriously ought to consider transferring to Our Lady of Gudalopja seminary in Denton, Nebraska. This is run by the ultra-conservative priestly fraternity of St. Peter (The reminants of the SSPX who choose to stay canonical). I garuntee that you will never have to worry about this sort of stuff going on over there.

This is also (I believe) in the famouse Lincoln diocese which is like stepping back in time fifty years ago as far as Church piety and practice go. Does anyone know any more about the dioces and its life?

Robert K.

Yes, I'm from a small town in the midwest. Let me tell you about these areas. However "conservative" the national media thinks the Lincoln diocese is, in these locales, the Catholics are the left wing of the community!!

Axios

Dear Benedictine,
PAX!

Again, I prefer St Constantine to Charlemagne any day!

But when I pass by Charlemagne's statue near Notre Dame in Paris, I pay my respects and I honour the saints of all Churches, knowing that their memory is sacred to those communities and people.

Would that your colleagues have the same sense of respect!

As for Martin Luther, he himself once told an opponent in a religious debate that he hoped the fellow "would break his neck before he got home that evening."

This and some other aspects of his life really put his alleged sanctity to some question . . .

But there is a school of thought that believes that Martin Luther returned to the Catholic Church toward the end of his life and was received along with his former nun-wife.

On these and some other grounds, a Catholic lay movement developed in the late seventies to promote the canonization of Martin Luther by Rome!
They developed very much along the lines of a devotional society. They printed cards with Luther as he was depicted by the early Lutherans, with the Holy Spirit above his head or a halo.

These cards were distributed among the early Lutherans and they reverenced them with a kiss or a blessing!

There was a series of articles on this in one of the Catholic journals we had in university and I understand Pope Paul VI was, at one time, somewhat favourably predisposed to dropping the anathema against Luther.

I remember meeting a Lutheran monastic who invoked saints privately, including Martin Luther.

I have seen other "progressive" Catholic calendars used by religious communities who included such "saints" as Anwar Sadat ...

So, with apologies to Brendan the Theologian, I guess New Skete's recent icons aren't so bad after all!

Alex

[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]