www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology The spirituality of icons 101

Dear Alex- Well, what do you think? Another iconographer you have defended, Fr William McNichols, has done an "icon" of "the Passion of Matthew Shepherd". I mean, it's a shame the kid was brutally murdered but that doesn't merit an icon...Will you not concede that these are abuses of the holy art of iconography?

Dear Daniel,

Icons need not depict canonized Saints who are liturgically venerated in Church.

In fact, at the time of the Seventh Ecumenical Council, the practice of writing icons of one's parents and other relatives and friends who had died - and whose life served as a source of Christian inspiration - was quite prevalent.

Even today, we may put pictures or even iconographic representations of our parents et al. in our private icon corners at home and ask their intercession - as I certainly do.

We may venerate anyone who has ever served to inspire us in private.

I came across a Jesuit professor who himself had a picture of Gandhi in his room among his religious pictures or his home shrine.

I wouldn't buy all of Fr. McNichols' icons - but I wouldn't buy all of the icons of any purveyor of religious goods.

As for why Fr. McNichols wrote icons for private use of those individuals - why don't you write to him and ask him directly?

As a Christian, you should speak to him and voice your concerns while allowing him to explain his position in view of that of the Church etc.

If you won't, I'll do it for you.

Alex

In just what sense is Matthew Shepherd or Harvey Milk an inspiration for Christians? I was taught that depiction of even holy people must be without the halo prior to canonization. Are you really defending "icons" of those who, like Milk and Shepherd, are noted not for holiness but for immoral lifestyles?
I suspect that for the sake of an argument you'd defend these guys if they did an icon of Satan himself...

The men you name are not noted for immorality; there are many similarly immoral people who have not been remembered in iconographic depictions. They are noted for being despised and unjustly slain.

They certainly did live immoral lives of open homosexuality. That they died unjustly does not render them holy.

I agree with you, Daniel. Matthew Shephard and Harvey Milk were *crime victims* - that is a very different thing from being a martyr for one's faith.

We should certainly pray FOR them before we pray TO them!

I would see these as more pictures then icons and have taken the nimbus off though I certainly admire many of the subjects chosen by Father McNichols.

The issue that was raised by Alex and questioned by Daniel was one of inspiration . It was not one of morality, holiness, and certainly not martyrdom for the faith or devotional prayers. In the deaths of these men, there is food for thought and lessons to be learned about our selves and our faith - about the ability to see Christ, rather than choosing to see sin, in others. And about understanding the consequences - amplified, selectively, in society - about the latter choice.

But why these men *in particular*? Why not, say, Laci Peterson or Samantha Runnion?

Dear Daniel n,

You are being really silly now.

The Eastern Church has had iconographic representations of the devil for centuries.

Those icons serve to inspire fear in us.

I don't defend the icons of those that Fr McNicol has written.

I've just told you to be a man and ask him directly about them.

The rule about not including haloes in icons of not-yet-canonized people isn't always followed.

It need not be if an icon is for private veneration.

So when are you going to be a man about this?

Alex

Dear Dolly,

I know very little about those two subjects and I've only suggested to our little friend, Daniel n, to contact Fr. McNichol directly and ask him for his justification for writing icons of them.

Isn't that being fair to both Daniel and Fr. McNichol?

Alex

Dear djs,

Yes, I don't know much about the lives of those two, except for what I've read in the press.

But you've put it beautifully and inspiration is the key here, as well as the other Christian values that you cite.

My icon wall usually only has people who are either liturgically honoured as saints, or who are in the process of formally becoming such.

I think Fr. McNichol's icon of the Holy New Martyr Nestor of Odessa is beautiful - the Orthodox have yet to write one of him themselves.

And, again, I don't think it is wrong of me to ask Daniel Boom here to contact Fr. McNichol and get his reasoning for writing icons on subjects that trouble him.

Alex

"Daniel Boom"? "Little friend"? "Be a man?"
I was under the impression that I was conversing with reasonable people who could disagree without being snotty about it. Guess I overestimated you.
I don't know how to contact Fr McNichols or Mr Lentz. I figure when you publish your work it's out there for public comment. Nor would I be particularly hopeful about the outcome; in the past attempts to talk to those who depart from tradition fall into a predictable pattern: condescesion followed by scorn, sort of like the way you have responded.
And while Satan may appear in some icons we don't paint icons of him with a halo for veneration, though I'm sure some "progressive" will get around to it eventually.

Dear Alex,

You are always eminently fair!

Laci Peterson was the California woman who was murdered by (allegedly) her husband while she was several months pregnant; her body and that of her unborn son were found separately, sparking an embarrassing debate among the "pro choice" media about whether or not they should refer to the "fetus" as a "child".

I can easily picture an icon showing Laci with her son, together for eternity.

Samantha Runnion was a beautiful 5-year-old girl who was kidnapped from right in front of her mother's home, and later found, raped and murdered. She had been instructed, as most children are today, to scream for help if anyone drove up in a car and tried to take her. And she did scream. And she was taken anyway.

An icon of Samantha and other murdered children would be a poignant reminder that the innocent Christ Child continues to suffer in our world.

Just my thoughts ...

Dear Daniel,

Alex is a very nice person, not at all snotty, and he likes to make up nicknames for all of us. He calls me "Dolly". I've never considered it to be insulting. It's just part of the give and take of a chat group.