www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology The spirituality of icons 101

Thank you so much; God bless you.

I got this neat picture of a middle-eastern man smoking a cigar.There is a weird flag with 3 stars behind him.Oh nevermind

Dear Daniel,

I apologise to you for my comments to you earlier - they were uncalled for and I ask your forgiveness in the Name of the Lord Jesus.

Alex

Dear Neil the Irish Melkite,

I apologise to you, Sir, for having given you cause to be upset with me.

Your comments to me really hurt me.

I'll work on my rudeness . . .

Alex

Dear Alex-
Thank you for your apology, all is forgiven. Please forgive me for my smart aleck remarks; they were an attempt at humor with no intention of offending. I was really disappointed at the turn the conversation took. I thought my concerns valid and I was dismayed that they were not addressed. Maybe some other time...

Alex,

Thank you for the apology. I hope you understand that my upset was with the terms you applied to Dan, "little man", etc. I found the tenor of the address demeaning to a fellow poster and unrelated to the discussion and reasonable disagreement by posters on a point. My apology in turn, since my post was probably a bit strong in relation to the wrong I perceived to have been done.

Many years,

Neil

My dear Irish brothers!

I thank you for your gracious acceptance of my apology in the Name of OLGS Jesus Christ!

I had initially thought Daniel was attacking the priest and his iconic work in question as an Orthodox convert. I had just gotten over an upset from reading a non-canonical Orthodox site critiquing Mother Teresa of Calcutta as having preached "relativism" with respect to Hinduism and other such blasphemous nonsense.

I had thought our friend, Daniel, was doing a similar number on this Jesuit Father and I should have checked him out before setting on him.

But since Daniel is Irish (and I'm part Irish too, every good Ukrainian is ), everything is all right then!

Happy Feast of All Saints of the Jesuit Order!

And happy Feast of All Saints of Ireland tomorrow!

Alex

My comments were based on his published work and comments. You once on another thread remarked that the priest in question is a Jesuit in good standing, which impresses me not at all. Many of the most destructive figures of the last 50 years have been Jesuits in good standing. You mentioned that Mr Lentz is a BC "in good standing" . I had heard he was Orthodox, but again I am not impressed. I am not sure WHAT it would take to merit public discipline in the modern Church; I once went and talked to an Orthodox priest [Greek] about a parishoner of his who performed abortions only to be told that he was a member in good standing. I am not equating these iconographers with baby killers, but their work does speak of an agenda at odds with that of the teaching Church and is an abuse of sacred art.

Dear Daniel,

You are entitled to your view of the matter.

And you are also entitled to respect of your view from me.

God bless you, zealous Brother in Christ!

Alex

As I said, maybe some other time; you clearly do not want to address the issue.
Speaking of icons, how do you like my new avatar image? I have been trying for two weeks to figure out how to get this. Finally the honorable Administrator told me how in terms that even I could grasp. I am so pleased with myself that I am trying to overlook the fact that it is about ten times TOO BIG [at least]. Oh well, there'll be no ignoring me now!

Dear Daniel n,

Good news: Your new avatar is glorious!

Bad news: It's too big for the forum.

Could shrink it or place it in your profile?

Peace,

Paul

I know it's too big but I don't know how to shrink it...any ideas [that can be explained to a technological simpleton]?

Dear Daniel,

What specific issue would you like me to address?

Let me know, and I'll be happy to give my view!

If you think I'm shy about expressing myself here . . .

Alex

Dear shy Alex,
Okay, can you answer a couple of straightforward questions?
1]Do you think it right to paint an "icon", complete with halo, of a deceased gay activist? Can you truly defend this?
2]Do you think an iconographer should be unfettered by tradition in selecting the subject matter of an icon?
3]Do you think it is right to paint an "icon" of someone based on his political stances rather than his sanctity? [eg, Gandhi, ML King, Mother Jones]
4]Do you think it is proper to paint an icon of a secular saint [Einstein, for example] who was not even a professed Christian?
5] Finally, if you were a priest would you bless any of these icons, placing them on the sacred altar during the divine liturgy?
Note that none of these are hypothetical cases, all have been painted by the iconographers we have been discussing [along with other bizarre images like the one of Christ as the horned god of the pagans]
As an aside, no one has told me how to shrink this avatar image... but I am starting to like it, sort of makes an impression, doesn't it? Makes my postings look downright magisterial.

Although I am not Alex I do think we can paint portraits of people based on their humanity and vocation. We cannot put a halo on them of course, but we can admire them and depict them and certainly all 3 you have named are worthy of being remembered and depicted not as Holy Icons but as pictures.