www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology This is a topic about Catholics who try to corrupt the moral teachings of the Church.

Deacon John,

Excellent point!

In Christ,

Porter

BTW, Deacon John,

One of my favorite gospel passages.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Oh, for heaven's sake! The link I provided was to the writings of Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange! He taught ascetical and mystical theology to the likes of Pope JPII! He is the single best known writer on ascetical and mystical theology of the last 500 years, among both eastern and western authors. If you are ignorant of his writings, or refuse to look at them because he is not strictly "eastern" that is your loss, not mine.

I'm dismayed with this anti-western mentality I see from so-called "Catholics" in the Byzantine Rite. It looks like a convenient way to dodge issues you don't want to try to get your arms around.

If its truly classic Catholic writing, it is worthy of study and reflection, whether one is from an eastern or western rite.

It does NOT have to be strictly from an eastern source to have merit.

Now again, I would ask you to review the link to the writings of Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange and not simply dismiss it out of hand so that you can refuse to discuss it. It has direct bearing upon the topic of this thread.

And I'll try one last time:

I'm attempting to stay on topic and provide links and posts related to the topic. Others have changed the topic to "what I want to hear in a homily."

Get back on topic. You could start by reading my link.

Your topic was crystal clear:

Some people apparently don't like or wish to discuss this topic, and hijacked the thread to change the subject to their own agenda.

I appreciate your posting of this thread.

The behavior of the posters is very revealing of a certain mindset.

Doc, seminarian@mtangel started the topic by saying:

"I'm tired of priests not speaking out against abortion, birth control, gay marriage, and the ordination of women priests. Does any one have any answers?"

My point was, I don't hear Jesus' words being spoken about--isn't that the best place to start teaching???

I did read your link and a lot of what is on the site that it is posted on. I commented on a separate post (see above). Still looking for some Eastern links from you on this topic, so that it stays relevant to this Eastern forum.

"The behavior of the posters is very revealing of a certain mindset."

I'd agree with you here.

John,

If the topic in this thread discussed is the moral teachings of the Catholic Church, then either Eastern or Western sources will do.

If the topic in this thread discussed is the moral teachings of the Catholic Church from an Eastern ecclesiological perspective, then only Eastern sources suffice.

Alas, it seems to me that this thread is not aimed only at discussing Eastern ecclesiology.

Perhaps this topic should be moved to Town Hall, since it isn't really "Eastern."

Then maybe you can take a look at the Catholic writer's works, as asked to do by DocBrian.

Logos Teen

It applies to the eastern churches as well.

The silence from the pulpits on the Culture of Life issues, in both eastern and Roman churches, is deafening.

The bishops' in Germany did speak out against the Nazis'. There were 20,000 priests imprisioned in Dachau alone. Ever hear of St. Maximilian Kolbe?

Doc, You seem to be the only one who hasn't gotten the fine point made by incognitus, and amplified by others: "from the pulpits" one encounters a mixed audience, in front of which many topics are just inappropriate.

So let me try another way.

How old were your children before you lectured them on the evil of homosexual activity?

Sometimes silence is appropriate.

Dear djs,
Thank you! To amplify the point a little, I firmly hold that the instruction of children in such areas which must be avoided is a matter which belongs to the parents.

One begins as soon as the children will be allowed out-of-doors unsupervised. The first lesson is the "Don't Take Candy From Strangers" lecture.

Meanwhile, one has already been raising the child or children to respect both its own physical privacy and everyone else's.

As soon as the child is able to make some distinctions, one begins to explain to the child that, in general, other adults should not touch the child without necessity (this is why the child needs to be able to make distinctions before this can be explained - there are occasions when an adult must touch the child for perfectly legitimate reasons).

One must also be aware of the need to reassure the child of the love of its parents and godparents and other relatives - this naturally involves hugs and kisses, which equally naturally will slacken as the child grows older.

The need to explain the physical process of intercourse comes much later. The parents must always remain alert, because the overwhelming influence of the secular world will prompt questions which require delicate handling.

Incognitus

Everyone,

In reviewing this thread, it is not of the news variety of the Church, but more a topic for discussion about what the original poster sees as what is lacking from the church as he sees it currently. I am moving this thread down to Faith and Worship and place it in a forum that fits the subject area. I hope all will understand.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Moderator

I've missed nothing, thanks, except a pathetic and continued effort to derail the topic of this thread.

From the pulpits" is an expression that includes more than homilies! Ever hear the expression "the bully pulpit"? It usually refers to politicians, with a negative connotation, using any publicity to advance their agenda.

In the case of the church, "From the pulpits" is an expression that not only includes the things pastors say in sermons, but also the material they place in their bulletins, the adult formation classes they offer, the pamphlets and books they make available in the back of their church, the materials they offer to those to whom they give spiritual counsel, the subjects bishops address in the diocesan newspapers and letters to the faithful to be read at Divine Liturgy, the letters to the editors of priests to secular papers, etc., etc., etc.

Furthermore, as a diaconal candidate in training(yes, in the eastern rite), I've thought long and hard about what subjects and language is appropriate to a congregation including my own children, and I assure you that I can and will get the message across regarding same sex marriage, openess to life in marriage, the mortal sin that is artificial family planning, the evil of abortion, etc., in appropriate language without in any way violating the innocence of my children.

My children have been attending the annual March for life in washington DC for years. They know, in age appropriate terms and concepts, the sinfulnes of same sex marriage, out of wedlock births, abortion, euthanasia, etc.

So I do not accept this false sense of "doing it for the children" (where have we heard that before!) as an excuse not to preach the WHOLE gospel at Divine Liturgy and in the many other outlets available to a pastor.

I've never done so. But they know that same sex marriage is an oxymoronic concept and an agenda that MUST be opposed, and they have assisted in assembling letters to the faithful urging them to write their representatives and President to protect the traditional definition of marriage and reject same sex marriage.

It is possible, in fact it is a DUTY, to fiercely gaurd the innocence of our children while still forming them as well-educated Catholics willing to fight for the Culture of Life.

This is a valid question, and a valid topic, that cannot be ignored and must not be permitted to be sidetracked. This is happening constantly, and this weeks headlines are full of it!!!

Gay-hunters May End up Shooting Down Church Morale [stltoday.com]

Americans Plan Rome Trip Over Ban on Gay Priests [nytimes.com]

Same-Sex Marriage to �Usher in Er...nation Never Seen Before� Calg. Bishop [lifesite.net]

Priest pulled from Mass after refusing to support anti-gay marriage push [boston.com]

Jesuit Official Rips Expected Ban on Gays [news.yahoo.com]

It\'s easier to get an abortion than an aspirin [news.enquirer.com]

Bishops\' conference weighs in on Mexico City policy, UNFPA, 10 other issues (USCCB) [usccb.org]

Planned Parenthood\'s "Choice Chick" Hydra vs. Rev. Wildmon\'s Widened Circle [cwnews.com]

Is the Pope a homophobe? [spectator.co.uk]

A Further Betrayal of Children [lifesite.net]

�Man and Woman�, �Wife�, ï¿...Widower� Banished From all Ontario Law [lifesite.net]

Philadelphia priest who blew whistl...\'s response (25 links, updated Friday) [cwnews.com]

These are the headlines our children are seeing on TV, in the newspapers, on the Internet, on the radio, every day. There happens to be many about homosexual abuses and the homosexual agenda not because of any bias of mine, but because THESE ARE TODAY'S HEADLINES!

If our priests refuse to address these issues, FROM THE PULPIT in all its forms noted above, or worse, when Catholics in the priesthood and among the laity Catholics who try to corrupt the moral teachings of the Church, they are guilty of gross malfeasance in the shepherding of the flock, and it would be better for them if a millstone were tied around their neck and they were cast into the sea.