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Despite all the problems of The Church (East and West), we need a new generation of holy priests, holy monks, holy nuns -- who have the courage to stand up and say "I AM A FOLLOWER OF JESUS CHRIST."

In the past The Church was built on the blood of the martyrs and standing up today for Christ makes one an outsider and therefore it can be a living martyrdom.

And someday these people will be talked about as the saints of the early years of the 3rd millennium.

There is nothing better than to be a follower of Jesus Christ. We live in historic times.



P.S. You can't walk on the water, unless you get out of the boat, i.e., take a few risks! if you sink, scream for help -- Our Lord WILL stretch out His Hand!!

the monastic beginner has written accurately; we need people to witness to Christ and to the Church. In order to do this, we must be proud of our Church, and genuinely convinced that we have something to offer. That does not work if we're pushing the religious equivalent of a foreign consulate, or if we think that the only reason that God has planted our Church in any number of new (to us) countries is "to keep the homeboys together." Incognitus

AMEN! to both amonasticbeginner and Incognitus!
Sam

Is this maxim only applicable to the Pittsburgh Metropolia, or are you speaking to the Ukrainians, Melkites and Romanians too?

It's a crying shame that the Pittsburgh Metropolia has de-"foreign"ized itself to such a degree that when Rusyn (or Slovak GC, or Hungarian GC) immigrants do come to this country (and they are coming, believe me) our established parishes are almost completely incapable of ministering to them unless they first learn English.

Dear L-R,
Are you suggesting that the Pittsburgh Metropolia maintain liturgies in Old Church Slavonic solely for the sake or vacationers from Europe?

I know of no cases where people who immigrate to persue a livelihood do not develop a command of English.

I am also unaware of anywhere that Old Church Slavonic is commonly used at the breakfast table.

Michael

"Originally posted by incognitus:
That does not work if we're pushing the religious equivalent of a foreign consulate,"
Someone asked if that applies only to one particular jurisdiction. I should think that it applies across the board, even though a handful of relative "success stories" could be produced to the contrary (the Amish are an example).
I could think of a few places where Church Slavonic might be used at the breakfast table - but then again, these are the sort of places where they may not eat much breakfast. Incognitus

And people say that my expectations are to high

Dear Lemko:

I ask this in all seriousness - and please forgive my ignorance.

Would it be possible for your Church to "import" priests from Slovakia and Hungary that have a "common language" with the new immigrants to your Metropolia?

Yours,

kl

Michael wrote:"...I know of no cases where people who immigrate to persue a livelihood do not develop a command of English..."

You haven't been to Miami or Washington,DC or any areas of the Southwest and Southern California where there are signs in the stores saying WE SPEAK ENGLISH.

Here where I live, we offer Driving Exams in Russian and Spanish and soon to offer it in Korean.

It's FAR DIFFERENT for the immigrants to this country today than it was when my grandparents came 100 years ago when THEY HAD TO LEARN ENGLISH to survive.

Today, you can turn on the radio or television and hear nothing but Spanish or Korean or Japanese or Urdu or Hindi or any one of a thousand other languages. If you can do this, why bother to learn the language of the country you live in????

JMHO...

mark

You're right. I think I'll raise my kids speaking Latin. Then, we could say that we're discriminated against!!! A minority!!! We'll get RIGHTS!!

Latin Speakers Of The World, Unite!!

Lemko-Rusyn wrote:
Isn't OCS a required language at the Pittsburgh Seminary? This would mean that our priests (at the very least the ones who studied there) should be able to conduct services in OCS for immigrants that they could in some way understand. Maybe hearing a confession or offering spiritual direction may be another matter, but at least they could worship as they have before.

Latin Trad wrote:

I'm not touching that one ....the last time I posted in Latin....

Slava Isusu Christu!

Glenn
:-)##

Michael,
All I can say is that this is such a muddled response to my statement that I can't even begin to address it.

Except:
At the Uniontown pilgrimage it is plainly evident that there are many people in our parishes in New Jersey and New York City who have lived in the USA for many years without gaining more than a passive knowledge of English; they are reluctant to attempt to speak English at all. By and large these are people in their 60s and older who are not actively employed or, like many other immigrants, do not hold jobs where they are required to know English. In their close-knit communities they likewise have little need for English in their daily life.

The number of our American-born clergy under age 60 who can even say "hello" to these people, nevermind minister to them, can be counted on one hand. So it's not surprising that so many of these immigrants can now be found in a Ukrainian Catholic parish, a Russian Orthodox parish, or a Slovak Roman Catholic parish.

For the younger immigrants, of course eventually if they stay here they will become proficient in English. But good luck getting them to attend one of our parishes until (or even after) that happens.

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!

Glenn wrote:"...Isn't OCS a required language at the Pittsburgh Seminary..."

My sources tell NOT ANY LONGER IT ISN'T...

Neither is Hungarian...

take that for what it's worth...

mark

Hi Mark,
You are right of course, I overshot the case. And I don't advocate forcing immigrants to use English in public schools or anything like that. That is a different thing altogether.

And I apologize to Lemko too, for the tone of my comments. It was uncalled for.

What stuck my was the assumption that the Ruthenians have neglected and abandoned their own confreres from Europe. If true that could be a good argument to justify the ethno-centrism we will find in other jurisdictions.

It seems to me like an odd argument, if the immigrants are truly religious is it nostalgia for the old language that keeps them away? Where would they go, to a church with an entirely different liturgy? To a church with a different theology? Or do they just stay home on Sunday? If they can go to a Ukrainian church and be satisfied at least their needs are being served, thanks be to God.

I would have to disagree that the Ruthenians have neglected the immigrants from Europe, intentionally or otherwise. The Ruthenian community in this country (U.S.A) is really pretty diverse in origin and mostly acculturated. The parishes in my area seem to be “mixed” Ruthenian (Rusyn, Slovak and others) and many if not most of those families have intermarried or married outside.

Younger generation priests might not know the languages of their grandparents, it's a shame of course, but pretty typical. But considering that the rest of the country is just like that I would say that we are pretty lucky that at least they discovered a vocation to the priesthood, and we should be thankful.

Immigration patterns have changed enormously and the people coming into the country today don't usually come to mine coal or make steel. Many major cities have virtually no significant numbers of Ruthenian Catholics, the Ruthenian ghettos just don't exist anymore outside of certain areas in the East.

One could level the same charge against the Roman Catholics for not tending to the needs of Italian or French or Slovenian immigrants. New parishes are erected every year but apparently no new ghettos of Italians or French are forming, so new immigrants must to go to the English speaking suburban mega-parish where they have settled.

It's not that a foreign language parish cannot be erected for the new immigrants, I would advocate establishing missions where the need is identified (provided the resources become available) but the established parishes have been in place so long it should come as no surprise that they have evolved to English.

Once again, I apologize for my comments.

Michael

Hmmm... even the OCA is reaching out to new immigrants. In Wheaton, IL (a "pan-Orthodox American" parish if there ever was one) there is a mission community meeting there for the large number of recently-immigrated so-called "Polish" Orthodox people in the area. I assume this community prays in Church Slavonic and are ministered to either in Ukrainian, Polish, Russian, or Belarusian. And as far as I know, the same American-born priest serves both communities.

And in Tulsa, Oklahoma (of all places!) there is a newly-established OCA parish set up primarily to serve the large number of Slavic (Russian, Serb, other) immigrants settling in Tulsa who for various reasons are not being served by the existing Orthodox parishes (Greek & Antiochian, I presume) in Tulsa.