www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology The veiling of women

Dear Marko,

I understand that, at one time, in addition to wedding rings, there were wedding "belts" sometimes inscribed with pictures of a man and a woman together etc.

Anything you can share about that?

Alex

Medved -

May I ask then why the Blessed Virgin is always depicted wearing a head covering? And how you can justify the implication that Christians adopted the custom of the veiling of women from the Islam when it is historically clear that Jewish women covered their heads, not only in prayer, but at all times long before the advent and invention of Islam?

Dan-

I read your comments and the threads on both message boards and I just wanted to tell you that I agree with you. Though as a Roman I don't know what, if any, validity my opinion carries in a Byzantine forum.

Dear Carole,

If you agree with us, then your opinion carries more weight than that of most Byzantines who don't!

This reminds me of the story of an Eastern Catholic seminarian in Ukraine prior to World War II who was having his oral exams in theology.

There was a Polish RC priest on the examining committee as well.

At the end, the Polish priest asked the EC seminarian this question, "Which Rite is more beautiful, the Roman or the Byzantine?"

For a number of reasons, none of them good, the BC seminarian replied, "Why, the Roman, Father!"

At this, the Polish priest looked sternly at the seminarian and said, "The Roman tradition "nie ymilsia" or "cannot approach" the glorious Byzantine tradition!"

Alex

Carole

Read the post again....

I said NOTHING about Christians adopting anything from the Muslims.

I said it was FORCED ON THEM BY PAIN OF DEATH!

Something very different from adopting...

As for the dipictions of Our Blessed Mother, they are as varied as the times they were created. Look at the art work of the Middle Ages where she is depicted wearing a little lacey thing on Her head.

In all likely hood, she wore a long, flowing robe adorned with coins which is very typical of this region of the Holy Land.

I've been doing this for over 30 yrs so I do know what I'm talking about reguardless of what you believe....

The material is out there do the research! :p

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!

Hi Alex,

I haven't seen any belts depicting this but I have seen bed clothes that were used to "wall" off the bed from the rest of the house. They were used by the Bridal couple and later when the woman was giving birth and until she was "churched". They usually have the Tree of Life and male and female figures embroidered on them; although the male figure was a later addition.

More often than not, they were emboridered with birds and the Tree of Life and can be traced back to pre-Christian times.

If you look at the keptary worn among the Hutsul, you find the same patterns used on the keptars repeated on these "bed clothes".

In Kharkiv, they do a pattern depicting 2 "women" riding on horseback on either side of the Tree of Life. I have seen this pattern on "bed clothing" and on the rushnyky worn by the groom and the best man.

Now that I think about it, I have seen a man's wedding shirt from the Horehornie region of Central Slovakia that show Adam & Eve and the Tree of Life. Let me get in touch with my friend, Helene, and see if she can send me a pic of it. It's part of her collection of embrodiery, which happens to be the largest outside of the Slovak Republic.

Hope this helps...

so many eggs, so little time....

marko

Excuse me. I just asked a question. No need to get snippy or rude.

Jeesh.

So nice to be made to feel welcome to share an opinion on a board.

I think I'll go back to lurking.

Thanks for nothing, Medved.

And I don't really care how many years you've been doing something ... makes no difference to me at all. Just makes you more pompous apparently.

Dear Carole, Please don't let 'em prevent you from posting and/or asking questions. Vito

Carole...

You haven't EVEN seen me get snippy yet...

I just can't figure out why THIS topic is ALWAYS beaten to death on this forum!

And it's usually Romans or converts that do the beating!

A little education goes a LONG WAY.....

Maybe you should try some!

I'm outta here....

A blessed remainder of the Fast to you all and to those who will start on Sunday, an easy and prayer Great Fast!

A little civility and common courtesy also goes a long way. Maybe YOU should try some you pompous git!

There is much more I can think of to say to you, but none of it is fit for a public forum and all of it would require me to visit the Confessional.

Except for this, I'm certainly glad that you are not representative of the whole of Eastern Catholicism or even of the general populace of this message board.

Now see, all this fasting is making everybody edgy. I am going to have some chocolate and mellow out. Chocolate - the drug of choice for old folks. Tune in, turn off, and drop out.

Yum... Chocolate!!!

Must have chocolate .... Must have chocolate ...

I'll have to knock off the kid's stash ...

Now see what you've done!?!?!?!

I heartily recommend this reminder from Holy Scripture when the sparks fly, egos soar and perspective is lost in our discussions; I say this as a fellow sinner who is so often wanting to be "right" - win the argument and lose sight of the "big picture".

Now in regard to meat sacrificed to idols: we realize that "all of us have knowledge"; KNOWLEDGE INFLATES WITH PRIDE, BUT LOVE BUILDS UP.
If anyone supposes he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know.
But if one loves God, one is known by him. (I Cor 8:1-2, emphasis mine)

Of course, many Scriptures address this; I mention the one which came to mind. By the way, has anyone ever read this "Litany" by a Protestant professor? I love it. Again, a reminder to become as little children.

A Learned To Learner Litany Of Transformation by Leonard Sweet

http://www.leonardsweet.com/llltransformation.asp

May our discussions glorify our Lord, be fruitful and fulfill the Royal Law.

Please forgive me dear ones.

Yours in Christ's love,

Woody

It's interesting that the subject of veiling women comes up every so often. It's a fair question from newcomers who were not part of previous discusions. It seems to me that the Apostolic commands referenced earlier mentioned women covering their heads and also, men and women not sitting together. As far as I can tell, some churches veiled women while men and women sat together, while others sat apart with no veils present. It seems to me that the Churches followed Apostolic commands of their own choosing, when and if they felt like it. Perhaps I am wrong but I don't see any uniform following of those commands, just local customs that varied from place to place.

Belts - the Greek-Catholics in Corsica, and possibly in Italy, have a tradition of special belts and I think this tradition is associated with weddings.

Incognitus