www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Pope drops "Patriarch of the West" title

What makes you think that would happen?

I think it just comes naturally to the human mind. I couldn't resist sharing this one again:

Edward William Frederick David Walugembe Luwangula
Mutesa II - Professor of Almighty Power and Knowledge, Lord of the Clans and the Land, the Father of All Twins, the Blacksmith's Hammer, the Smelter of Iron, the Power of the Sun, First Officer of the Order of the Shield and Spears, the Cook with All the Firewood

It amuses me that there is a Latin Patriarch of the East Indies (in Goa, nonetheless), while the two Native sui iurus Churches (historically oppressed by Goa) are still not allowed to run their affairs freely outside of their native dioceses. The Syro-Malabar Church has almost 4million members and the Syro-Malankara almost 500K - both are Major Archiepiscopal Church, but neither can appoint, missionize, or act freely outside of Kerala.

deleted

Dear John,

Some years back we had a thread on "vagante" orders.

At one point, I took it upon myself to consecrate Philip Mor Ephrem the "Catholicos-Patriarch of New Orleans, Louisiana and the entire South-East."

His appointed liturgical colours were also the same as for Mardi Gras!

Is that exotic enough for you?

Alex

I hate to throw some water on this fiery thread, BUT

Follow-up story. [cwnews.com]

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

We have quotes from the media (we know how reliable they are with facts) why the title was dropped but I dont recall seeing any official statement from the Vatican why the change was made. Lots of speculation and what ifs.

The Goan Archdiocese is just another Indian Archdiocese in todays India. The title is just an honour and does not give the Archbishop any rights to wear funny hats etc.

The Malabar and Malankara church do have diocese in other parts of India and elsewhere. They also have parishes elsewhere as well that they run under the local bishops. No doubt they too will be upgraded if they have enough people to be their own diocese. They are what Goa is not.

I can recall when HM "The She Elephant" visited Queen Elizabeth a few years ago. Thats the mother of the King of Swaziland if anyone was wondering. Just thought I would throw that one in for John.

As for the Latin Church having local Churches well thats what each country's bishops conference is. It is the Latin version of the Eastern Synod.

ICXC
NIKA

This does not seem to have been very well thought out. I gather it was sapose to have some Ecumenist idea behind it.
To many the title is inherent in the office of Pope . A good example is Camilla Parker bowels, the wife of the Prince of Wales . Who they call duchess of Cornwall. They call her that to stop comparisons to " Diana " ,but.According to British law and custom the wife of the Prince of Wales is the Princess of Wales. Also those that say she won't be Queen when charles ascends the throne,wrong. there is no such title in British law of Princess consort.Nor are their Morganatic marriages. Parliament would have to pass a slew of new laws to create an alternative title for her.

Who is Camilla Parker Bowels? That would be an odd choice of name if she changed it.

Andrew

From what I am led to understand it was very well thought out by both John Paul II and by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. From another source I quote the following:

BEGIN QUOTE

When the Pope was yet Joseph Ratzinger he pointed out the need to disentangle the confusion between the patriarchal and primatial roles of the bishop of Rome and to break up the Latin patriarchate,replacing it with a number of "patriarchal areas," that is, regions with an
autonomy similar to that of the ancient patriarchates, but under the direction of the episcopal conferences.

In an essay entitled "Primacy and Episcopacy," Ratzinger developed the theme at greater length:

"The image of a centralized state which the Catholic church presented right up to the council does not flow only from the Petrine office, but from its strict amalgamation with the patriarchal function which grew ever stronger in the course of history and which fell to the bishop of Rome for the whole of Latin Christendom. The uniform canon law, the uniform liturgy, the uniform appointment of bishops by the Roman centre: all these are things which are not necessarily part of the primacy but result from the close union of the two offices. For that reason, the task to consider for the future will be to distinguish again and more clearly between the proper
function of the successor of Peter and the patriarchal office and, where necessary, to create new patriarchates and to detach them from the Latin church. To embrace unity with the pope would then no longer mean being incorporated into a uniform administration, but only being inserted into a unity of faith and communion, in which the pope is acknowledged to have the power to give binding interpretations of the revelation given in Christ whose authority is accepted whenever it is given in definitive form."

After exploring the ecumenical implications of this vision, Ratzinger concluded: "Finally, in the not too distant future one could consider
whether the churches of Asia and Africa, like those of the East, should not present their own forms as autonomous 'patriarchates' or 'great churches' or whatever such ecclesiae in the Ecclesia might be called in the future."

Playing the optimist, I hope that this is the beginning of a long-term plan to bring these ideas quietly into reality, without causing alarm to the "hawks" and ultramontanists in the Roman Catholic Church.

Who knows, but now the Pope is no longer Patriarch of the West we may one day see a Patriarch of Dublin.

END QUOTE

Eli

I would hesitate to say that anything Joseph Ratzinger does is not well thought-out.

Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and wait and see what develops beyond this.

Logos Teen

wash your mouth out with soap *points to the floor and demands "25 & with one hand only" before regaining composure* This is the Pope you are talking about in such an off hand manner. People suffer and die to be in communion with and under that man in that office.

Not impressed under the southern Cross! (constellation visible down under and on a few flags down here)

ICXC
NIKA

Be forewarned because I have a different interpretation of this Roman move.

I think no patriarchates will be erected in the Latin Church aside from maintaining for the meantime the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem and the "minor" patriarchates, the latter allowed to fade away into oblivion. The LPJ could be denominated eventually as just an Archdiocese (or merged into the Patriarchate of Jerusalem when re-union occurs).

The creation/erection of "new" patriarchates solely refers to the Eastern Catholic Churches, the first of which could be the UGCC, and the Syro-Malabars and Syro-Malankaras to follow.

Administratively, the particular Churches (Archdioceses/dioceses) under the Latin Church will continue to be governed locally by each Archbishop/Bishop and grouped nationally (for interaction collegially) as national episcopal conferences.

Eastern Catholic metropolitanates and lesser Churches will continue as they are until they are large enough (or merged with their "parent" Orthodox counterpart when re-union is achieved) to be considered elevation to patriarchates.

Eastern Catholic patriarchates existing at the time re-union is established between the Catholic and the Orthodox Churches (Eastern and Oriental) will be merged with their parent Orthodox counterparts to form a single and united patriarchate for each ethnic/national jurisdiction.

As the Supreme Pontiff governs the re-united Apostolic Church, it is now incumbent for each Patriarch of the Eastern Churches (and other high-ranking Bishops) to be members of the electoral college (currently the College of Cardinals).

This scenario is an overview of the current provisions of the Latin Code of Canons and the Eastern Code of Canons.

Both Codes meld the papal system of Church governance favored by the West and the patriarchal system favored by the East.

As I see it!

Amado

Good observation there. A few new Primates have been created. The last one I noted was a Primate for Slovakia when their country parted company with the Czechs.

I saw someone make come comment about a Patriarch of Dublin. Obviously someone has forgotten there is a Primate as head of the Irish Church already.

I dont think it is about Patriarchs or Primates, it is about synodal governance across the Church at local levels. As this has happened we seem to be on track.

ICXC
NIKA

Very interesting and good observations and thinking, Amadeus!
There really is a need for more autonomy for the local churches inside the latin ritus, too. But patriach is perhaps not the best possible tittle for the primate. How about Major Archboshop?!?
Major Archbishop of New York and All Norhern America - how would that sound...