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Dearest Fr. Gregory,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Thank you so much for posting this... I am an offical RC who has been UNoffically Byzantine Rite Ruthenian for two years, and I've been looking for an "Eastern" version of the holy rosary.

Please bless this poor little sinner who struggles with prayer in general...

Daniel; it is as I have said, simply. That is all. Sorry you are confused, but nothing I can do about that save say that. All blessings this day.

Daniel; go to this site
http://patermel.nstemp.net/photo5.html

I have no idea what the webmaster did to that photo of Arch Abbess Mother Matthew Peter!
So go then to LINKS and you will find our main web site and the proper photo.
If you want to sort things out with our Arch Abbess then......
Denomination matters not one iota with us; we are at peace with everyone who lets us be; Jesus and the street folk come first with us always. ALWAYS, so I never get into these debates; we shine His love and anything else matters not. There is too much else to do. Like feeding 400 homeless folk in His Name every day in all weathers and with no funding from anyone or anywhere but what we earn and save
See
http://www.abbotsfordtimes.com/issues04/031104/news/031104nn3.html
Numbers have risen greatly since then and we alos, a small group and all older Nuns, also minister to the native aboriginals; so many children with nothing. Jesus loves these little ones. So do we....

ALL rich blessings this day

Oh, Irish Anchoress, I do not think it is Daniel that is confused. :rolleyes:

Gaudior, who has also noted a few things...

Yes, yes, lovely, Irish Anchoress, but, you see, you are not Catholic, Eastern or Roman. You belong to a group that I am sure does a lot of good in the world, but isn't Catholic. I think it is very misleading to Catholics who believe they are speaking to a Catholic nun, and may have asked your guidance spiritually. Perhaps you should change your profile to "non-denominatonal, non-Catholic" in order to avoid giving the false appearance of Catholic monasticsm.

Gaudior, who has no problem with any denomination, provided it doesn't attempt to mislead...

Dear Brothers & Sisters, +May He Who is Risen and Who goes before us bless each of you!

We should always admit that there ARE among Continuing Anglicans, Old Catholics, and even occasional Lutherans and some other groups faithful orthodox Christians who are constantly growing in their understanding of the Church...and in whom we should find a measure of solidarity and common faith.

Bishop Kallistos (Ware) says: As Augustine wisely remarked: �How many sheep there are without, how many wolves within!� (Homilies on John, 45, 12) While there is no division between a �visible� and an �invisible Church,� yet there may be members of the Church who are not visibly such, but whose membership is known to God alone. So let us leave the actual membership of who belongs to the Church to Him? Let us not judge. Let us not hurt the feelings of those who are trying sincerely to belong and grow in their understanding of the Church. We have only to look at the Evangelical Orthodox of the Antiochian Patriarchate. These people where Orthodox before they were chrismated...had anyone reposed BEFORE chrismation by the patriarchate would they not have been considered truly Orthodox? The Holy Spirit moves and works where He will and our feeble attempts to incapsulate Him often causes much damage to souls and much harm for the salvation of others.

I have seen so much sin and pure evil withIN the Church and so much good and even holiness OUTside her---that I've learned after 40 years of Church service not to ever judge who's who...or make may statements about who belongs and who doesn't. I think it's dangerous and I think to do so is even sinful.

I remember meeting (many years ago) an Orthodox nun in one of the VERY uncanonical Orthodox jurisdictions in Astoria, she had just arrived from Greece and was singing on the cliros...and I thought, but she doesn't belong to the Church here. Then I thought to myself, better to say nothing...because in the end this very obviously holy aged nun IS the Church---in the flesh...she is Christ...his hands, his feet, his mouth...moving and living and working in our midst.

Let us welcome EVERYONE here and show that this place (The Byzantine Forum) is different from any other place...where EVERYONE is welcomed as Christ. The moment we start making 'categories' and excluding...that moment is filled with danger for someone's salvation. Let us instead welcome EVERYONE with love and compassion---and thereby show them that we are filled with His grace and His love!

In His Holy Name,
+Fr. Gregory

Dear Fr. Gregory,

I think you misunderstood...you would not represent yourself as a Protestant, and offer spiritual advice to a Protestant who thought that you were Protestant without making certain that they knew you were Orthodox.

I think Daniel and myself were merely pointing out that by misrepresenting herself as Catholic, she is wrong. This is not a comment on her community, her personal spirituality, or anything else. The nun you spoke of in your example (Astoria) was clearly known to people to be not canonical Orthodox, and as a result, they could view any spiritual advice given to them with more discernment.

It is the misrepresentation that was the problem. Of course all are welcome here, as you know we have all denominations here...and do not make Forum participation in any way dependent on canonicity.

Gaudior, who merely points out the difference...

Irish Anchoress,

The Church you reference is the "Byzantine Catholic Church Inc." which now styles it self the "Byzantine Catholic Church(Autocephalous)
Eastern and Western Rite Orthodox Church" and states it the product of the merger of the Byzantine Catholic Church Inc. and the Hungarian Orthodox Church, whose primate was a member here some time ago.

While I welcome your participation here it must be in an atmosphere of honesty. The Church you are in communion with has no connection or communion with the Byzantine Catholic Metropolia of Pittsburgh, nor any Catholic Church in Communion with Rome and it would be wrong to present or pretend otherwise.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Dear Fr. Gregory:

I think Daniel's point (and Charles Bransom's and Gaudior's and Jennifer's) is a just a plea for plain honesty.

Irish Anchoress claims the religious order to which she belongs IS in communion with a Byzantine Catholic group in Canada and, quote, ". . . thus with Rome."

That group in Canada is NOT Byzantine Catholic and neither is it (Byzantine) Orthodox by any measure. It calls itself the "Byzantine Orthodox Catholic (Autocephalous) Church." It's not even one of the Orthodox Churches of Irregular Status.

So far, we have been as welcoming as it should be but it should dawn on Irish Anchoress to be more forthcoming by not foisting on us a clear misrepresentation of her affiliation. She, herself, keeps on adding to her posts: ". . . and I am not RC!" but with evident disdain.

I would like also to request Irish Anchoress to cease casting aspersions on the Roman Catholic Church, which are conveniently interspersed in most of her otherwise polite commentaries. We can read between the lines even if such statements are veiled, no pun intended, with pious invocations.

I have no qualms in her attending RC Mass, as she says, but I hope the Anchoress has the civility not to receive Holy Communion for the time being.

And may I ask, Father, is not an Anchoress akin to a hermit or to a cloistered Nun in the Catholic/Orthodox traditions? How and why is our dear Irish Anchoress allowed the "convenience" of Internet public "chats?"

Asking for your blessings.

Amado

Dear Irish Anchoress,

I'm going to make this official. You are welcome to post here, to share your journey of faith and to join in our journey. However, I must ask you to be clear that you are not in communion with Rome. The Old Catholics are not in communion with Rome and, as Fr. Deacon Lance has pointed out, neither is the Byzantine group to which you refer.

Please make sure that you do not claim a communion that does not exist, and that you do not portray yourself as a Catholic in communion with Rome.

Fr. Deacon Edward, moderator

Dear Amado,

I know nothing of the Byzantine Catholic Church that is being referred to here. In Canada, we don't have non-ethnic Eastern Churches in any event. We're too "cultured" for that . . .

But the point here is not that, which is an aside.

The point is whether Irish Anchoress may refer to herself as "(Old) Catholic."

And she most certainly can.

Orthodox Christians NOT in communion with Rome call themselves "Orthodox Catholic."

You can ask Bob Orthoman about that (if you have the courage ).

Oriental Christians call themselves "Catholic" and so do many Protestants (the earliest name for Protestants was "Reformed Catholicks.")

Where has Irish Anchoress EVER said she was anything other than an Old Catholic?

Was there any doubt?

The thing about the Byzantine Catholics - that is a confusing name in and of itself and doubtless Irish Anchoress, who does not concern herself with jurisdictional issues (which seems to be such a pressing matter for many here), could have thought this to be an EC group in communion with Rome.

That is an innocent mistake in and of itself.

There are a variety of Old Catholic groups whom I prefer to Protestants and liberal Catholics (yes, in communion with Rome).

They are often traditionally-minded, even to a fault (I'm sure God will forgive them for such a "fault!").

There is an Old Catholic chapel near my veterinarian that rescues pet animals from the streets and adopts them out. They also have a Chapel of St Francis where one may go to pray the rosary (they have rosaries by the door - when was the last time you saw an RC Church do THAT?

I've know a number of Old Catholics, some of whom later went on to become RC's and EO's and also Eastern Catholics.

Some of them returned to their Old Catholic Church.

There is the Polish National Catholic Church in my community and they attend RC Mass and also EC Liturgies - they go to Communion etc. Very nice people, them!

There is also a former PNCC parish somewhere here that came into communion with Rome and the Pope allowed their married priests to continue etc.

I know the community of Irish Anchoress and it is known and respected by other Christians, RC, EO, what have you.

If we want to find fault with this or that innocent expression of hers - then, really, we have enough of our own old posters who go beyond the pale in heaping insults on others.

We've bent over backwards to be nice to some here who have not been nice and quite deliberately.

I DON'T understand the attitudes of some toward Irish Anchoress.

And, yes, Anchorites are to live in solitary.

But who can really expect them to be cut off from the world?

They, like we, are called to live in the world and to share its joys and sufferings while praying unceasingly for it.

Anyway, I see you are yawning and so I stop my sermon now . . .

Alex

Father Deacon Edward,

Point well taken!

But even if Irish Anchoress is mistaken about the Byzantine Catholic church she refers to - there are MANY who are not in communion with Rome who DO acknowledge the Pope of Rome as "First among Equals" or some other such primacy.

Is that not a "form" of some sort of communion? Certainly, not enough to allow for intercommunion during the Liturgy.

Did not one poster here recently say that our cherished BC understanding of "communion with Rome" is "delusional" and not in keeping with what Rome itself has defined as what union with it really is?

Do we not have posters here that will go out of their way (with impunity) to attack others on the issue of "communion with Rome" as being simply wishful thinking from the Orthodox point of view?

Why are we singling out Irish Anchoress?

There were some here who got on their high horse of 'present the facts please' toward Irish Anchoress.

The same could be asked of you, Sir, with all due respect.

If I'm sounding out of sorts, it is because I feel a kindred spirit with Irish Anchoress. People can be misunderstood, that is one thing.

To ask them to retract is legitimate. But, please, let's have the same sort of fairness toward those, especially the recent people here, who have deliberately and cruelly gone on the attack.

If Irish Anchoress feels a relationship to the Pope of Rome - more power to her!

My local Anglican canon is so High Church that he always commemorates the POpe of Rome during his Prayer-book service.

That is confusion on the side of the Angels, I say.

Have a nice day.

Alex

As for being linked to the internet, do we not have a few hieromonks here who are on this forum too?

Why single out Irish Anchoress?

In Christ,
Alice

Dear HRH Alexander I:

I was not yawning! I was !

No one ever prevented the Irish Anchoress on her use of "Catholic!" This word has been appropriated by so many that I have lost count.

It is a simple question of honesty. Don't say you are in communion with Rome when clearly you are not!

Yes, she can call herself "Old Catholic!"

Amado

BTW, you know fully well that the RCC has intercommunion guidelines with the PNCC, along with the Assyrians and the Orthodox (Oriental and Eastern) Churches. So, belaboring on the PNCC case is moot, Sir! :p

Dear Deacon Lance,

To avoid confusion, please identify the group above in italics. It is obviously not any of the canonical Orthodox Churches in Hungary.

Tony