www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Holy Ghost

When I was a kid, the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity was called the Holy Ghost.

Then one day (pre-Vatican II I believe)the teacher said that the Holy Ghost was now the Holy Spirit. That sounded strange, but I got used to it.

Have the Eastern Churches ever used Holy Ghost?


Paul

Among the parishes of the Pittsburgh Metropolia, most of them dedicated to the feast of Pentecost - Descent of the Holy Ghost/Spirit, are called "Holy Ghost". I think four are called "Holy Spirit."

Of those four, one was founded in 1941 as Holy Spirit.

A second was founded in 1909 as Holy Ghost but moved to the suburbs after WWII, yet the original church remains to this day. The original parish is still "Holy Ghost" but the newer parish in the suburbs is "Holy Spirit."

The third was founded in 1907 as Holy Ghost but when a new church was built in the 1950s, it was renamed Holy Spirit.
The fourth was founded as Holy Ghost but at some point (I forget when) was renamed Holy Spirit.

Dear Paul,

Not that I am speaking from an Eastern perspective, since I am a Latin Benedictine monk, but I think that the "change" you allude to is merely one of semantics.

After all the English word ghost is derived from the German word geist which means "spirit." So it really refers to the EXACT same thing!

I don't believe there was any theological rationale for the change in name. It is similar to other changes such as "Song of Songs" for "Canticles of Canticles", etc.

PAX

Our Benedictine brother has hit the nail right on the head. It's semantics. Over the course of time, individual words in a language devolve.

In older English, "ghost" meant "spirit" or "incorporeal being". And it is indeed Germanic: "Geist" (=spirit). Over the course of time, "ghost" got another meaning: "presence of a dead person", i.e., Scrooge's buddies; or Casper the Friendly G________ (with the implication that OTHER ghosts are NOT friendly). So, "Holy Ghost" had a whole new meaning, and the Church determined to use a more accurate and 'friendly' word.

What is interesting is the word: "awful". Originally it meant "filled with awe", i.e., something that just made our jaws drop. Subsequent development of the language introduced the word "awesome", which very closely paralleled the original meaning of "jaw drop". So, in the old King James version we talk about the "awful" presence of God, clearly meaning "jaw drop", but now meaning "yuk".

So too, the use of "fear of the Lord". Originally, this too meant "jaw drop and knocked over by". Today olde "fear" means something akin to a light form of terror, --in a really bad way. The olde term: "fear" should now be more readily rendered as "utmost respect". It is close to: I'm so knocked over by God's reality that I am just transfixed by His presence. Not paralysis from fear, but rather paralysis by just being overwhelmed by the reality.

Thus, there is a most critical job for the preachers of the Gospel to make absolutely sure that the message of the Gospel is presented in words that convey accurately the intention of the divinely inspired writer. And not just parrot the verbalizations of the ancients.

Blessings! (=blessed-sayings, i.e., "nice words" by God about a person resulting in a good life.)

Dear Benedictine, Lemko Rusyn,

Thank you both for your replies.

The German translation of ghost is interesting.
I thought that spirit had something to do with the Latin, spiritu (I hope that is the right spelling, it's been awhile since I was exposed to Latin) translated directly into modern American English.

The thing about the change from Holy Ghost to Holy Spirit for me is that it signaled the winds of renewal of the coming 2nd Vatican Council.

God bless you,

Paul

PS: I made a retreat at the Pecos Benedictine Abbey of Our Lady of Guadalupe. I'll never forget the morning and evening prayer chant. It was heavenly!

When I was little, and heard the word "Holy Ghost" I conjured up visions of spooky halloween ghosts flying around. Holy Spirit was to me a more comforting term-- sort of holy-like. Guess that's what our secularized world has done to the word ghost.

BTW, two churches in my hometown are named "Holy Ghost" Holy Ghost Russian Orthodox Church (now defunct)which had a beautiful icon of Descent of Holy Spirit on its iconostasis, and Holy Ghost PNCC.

In the Eastern Liturgy, I've never heard or seen the Holy Spirit referred to as the "Holy Ghost," but Holy Ghost was quite prevailent in the pre-Vatican II Latin Rite missals.

Have a blessed fast.
Dan

In my upbringing in a Protestant denomination we used to say the "Apostles' Creed" in which was the line... "He shall come again to judge the quick and the dead." As a youngster I just figured no matter how fast you ran, you couldn't out run Jesus.

Great Fast blessings.

Dear Paul,

"Holy Ghost" was also prevalent in the old Elizabethan style of English as used in the King James Bible (you may still hear it used by some of our Baptist or Pentecostal friends from time to time). You have zeroed in on the difficulties of "transliteration" versus strict "translation" from one language to another. "Spirit" is indeed derived from the Latin. But the German word "geist", as used for example in the word "Zeitgeist" meaning "zeit = time" and "geist = spirit" could literally be translated "the spirit of the times". The Vatican II restoration of the word "spirit" from "ghost" seems to me to be a much more theologically faithful rendering.

Desmond O'Grady, in his book "Beyond the Empire -- Rome and the Church from Constantine to Charlemagne" says that communications [between the East and West] became more difficult once Latin was introduced alongside Greek as a language of the Church because terms that were considered equivalent sometimes had, instead, different connotations in the other language."

Some of our modern corrections have been all for the better.

Khrystyna

All,

Holy Ghost is also used in the Douay-Rheims version of the Bible. Holy Spirit is used in the New American Bible.

Paul

The Hebrew "ru'ah" is the word for both "spirit and "breath." The Hebrews didn't distinguish. When God acts, he speaks (Word) and blows (breath/Spirit). So in English translations of the creation narrative in Genesis, we see the wind moving about and the Spirit of God going over the face of the waters. Both words are being translated from "ru'ah."

In Christ,
Andrew