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Dear Dr. John,

Well, for someone who is as learned as you, you certainly know all about us folksy unlearned types!

We had a priest with two doctorates from Rome, both on the Eastern Church.

He had no connection whatever with the real life situation of his parishioners and made no attempt to do so.

He once read the Gospel at the Resurrection Mattins in, count 'em, twelve languages.

What the heck did our parish need to hear the Gospel in all those languages for? When someone mentiond this to him later, he just retorted, "So what? All those people are idiots . . ."

Let the theologians and scripture scholars do their thing, it is important.

But until our way of training priests isn't more focused on the actual lives of the parishioners, we will continue in our current state, for the most part.

You provide us all with the reality check we need.

The sarcasm we were subjected to above could, in truth, have ONLY come from a convert.

Alex

Alex,

Are you suggesting we dump the seminary program? Is education useless and ineffective in pastoral ministry? We can dump education altogether and all become sycophants.

The case you mention is of one priest who was rude. Do we castigate ALL priests because of the rudeness of one? Do we castigate ALL priests because one may be a pedophile? Are all priests pedophiles and rude? See where the fallacy leads?

We make the mistake in assuming that our laity are nothing but an ignorant and uneducated horde of illiterate serfs. Many of the laity I know have professional degrees (read: all educated) and are employed in professional areas in all walks of life. Most of their children are sent to colleges too. The "actual lives of parishioners" also includes the relentless pursuit of education and re-education. No reason to hold the laity in such contempt. They deserve better credit.

Joe,

Why do you always look to interpret things in the most negative light possible? Alex�s post was clearly one that supported both academic AND pastoral formation. The need for a complete and balanced formation program has been much discussed here. If I, as an uneducated layman, can see this surely you, with all your education and degrees, should be able to see this.

Admin

Adm,

I was only commenting on Alex's negative post. I agree that formation needs to include a bit of everything and keep balanced. But to owe the rudeness of the priest to his two doctorate degrees is ridicule and one-sided. The problem lies deeper in the priest's personality and not the value or dis-value of education. Alex should recognize this.

Dear Joe,

I thank you for a good suggestion. "Many Latin diocese have a full time vocations co-ordinator". This could be a layman or a religious of course! Is there someone or somehow we can fund the salary and benefits of a suitable professional person who would be able and willing to take on this task? I would be all for it!

Elias

Dear Fr. Elias,

I believe I wrote, "Many Latin dioceses have lay folks assisting in the application process of vocations ..." Of course, these assistants are volunteers, namely deacons and their spouses, since they are intimately cognizant of the process and demands of their ministry. The cost if FREE! I'm unaware of full-time paid vocations coordinators anywhere.

Thanks for the correction, I apologize for misreading the post.

Bless me a sinner, Father Elias,

There's been alot of that going around on this thread lately.

Alex

God blesses you!

So I see!

Fr Hieromonk,

I cannot agree more. Communication is the missing link. The called by name program provided the vocation director with 34 contacts in Van Nuys. The fruit of this effort will not be realized overnight. Although I am not aware of what is going on in the other eparchies at least 10+ applications for the diaconate program were sent out by the vocation director. The cohort from Van Nuys may well exceed the first in terms of numbers. Additionally, Hegumen Nicholas of HRM reported that the brotherhood will be adding 3 more men within the next year.

I also think that we have to view vocation opportunities in the most ordinary aspects in our communal pilgrimage of faith. This is something that everyone can do. Although the final decision to call a man to orders is for the bishop, we all can encourage men in our parishes to begin the discernment process. This is something that belongs to the Church, not just the hierachy. As a parent or grandparent speak to your children and grandchild about considering a vocation. If you are a catechist speak to the children about vocations (when the sisters were in charge of catechetical teaching, they did this) If you are the youth co-ordinator of the parish talk to the youth. If you are involved with adult education suggest to the men to consider a ministerial vocation, or at least ask the adults to present the notion to their children or grandchildren. God can only work with what we are willing to give to Him. Because we may be constrained by a law that makes it difficult (impossible?) to ordain married men to the priesthood, does that mean God is no longer calling men to serve in the Ruthenian Church?

The question boils down to this, "What/Who are we willing to give to God for the service of His Church?" As long as we are faithful to His call, God can certainly overcome some supposed incompetentcy. Complaining about the past and doing nothing for the future is a wasted effort. (Remember the parable of the talents?)

John

Dear John,

That is all well and good - you raise many excellent points.

I grew up in an atmosphere of tremendous criticism of our priests and bishops.

I heard this criticism as an altar-server, at home and during church committees.

How many young people, exposed to the same sort of demeaning criticism of their pastors, are turned off the very thought of serving in the ministerial Priesthood?

Several posters here and on other threads gave a primary example of what I'm talking about.

There is a time and a place for criticism of the Church.

It adds nothing toward the encouragement of vocations.

Alex

Alex,

are Ukrainians anything like the Spanish- they are their happiest when they are complaining? So if this is done at home, parish ministry is like one big happy family.

John

Dear John,

Good point - I once wanted to shove a Ukie who was criticizing our pastor for his sermon - a good, healthy, sincere shove!

We too had a problem with married priests. Before the fall of communism, our bishops wouldn't ordain them here, but, instead, sent them across the pond (the Black Sea in this case) to get them ordained over there and then have them return as "missionaries to Canada."

Eventually, ideas changed with the influx of new, dynamic, barely-can-speaka-da-Inglish-linkvwich Ukrainian married priests.

The really nice thing about these priests is that they don't talk down to us, they punctuate their sermons with real-life examples, versus above-the-head real textbook cases.

They all have excellent seminary educations - but somehow that hasn't hurt their ability to be sociable, understandable and pleasant .

Why don't you become a Priest, Smarty Pants?

Alex

This sure is an interesting thread!

Re:Communication -- The eparchy newspapers are an excellent way to share information (besides this Forum). I'm probably one of a few people who receive all three eparchy newspapers and the newsletter from the fourth (I'm Ruthenian). That's the place to share information. I assume other CHURCHES have their own newspapers, too. We all need information about our deacons and seminarians to share with other potential candidates. We need continual -- note: continual -- information about our monasteries and about restoring traditional monastic life.

And MOST ESPECIALLY, we need to pray for men and women to step forward to consecrate their lives to God.

One little step I do, since our parish is on a "tourist" route, is to ask our visitors to pray for vocations in their home parish and in other churches they visit. Of course, they always say YES. (They wouldn't dare say NO.) They are always surprised -- no one had asked them indivudally to pray for vocations. :p