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Mass Factories- In my former RC parish ( no not all parishes & people do this) I have seen people behave cluelessly while they were at Mass. You know the same look on their faces like when they are doing the dishes. Our group is small where I am at right now and I don't see this. In fact during fellowship we have had wonderful exchanges about everything from the saints, to tradition in the Church, the history of the Church coming to America.

Many people who attend dinners don't belong to the Parish.I see that statement as a generalization.
For converts and returning fallen aways the graces of Divine Liturgy are important but the socialization afterwards is important also. Hpoefully during social time they will see the parishioners setting example and living their faith. From that they can be inspired and drawn towards the spiritual life of the parish and be eager for Catechesis. In some instances both Liturgy and fellowship work in tandem and are important.
If it is true that actual parishioners attend dinners and not Liturgy then they aren't getting it. The Pastor should hold instruction classes during the dinners.

Nicky's Baba

Nicky's Baba,

I remember a parishioner once called a former pastor that she wasn't able to make it for liturgy on Sunday morning (the blizzard was pretty bad and walking across the street from her house to the church was too much), but she did remind him that she will certainly be there for Bingo that week to help support the church with her "contributions." :p

Regarding vocations and communications, I just had an enlightening experience. The Seminary is running a "Come and See" weekend visit to the Seminary for young men 16-25 from Nov 1-3. It is designed to be a gentle introduction to vocational discernment and a non-threatening look at the inside of a seminary. Camera ready reproducible brochures went out to the office of vocations in each eparchy nearly 2 months ago.
Tonight, on a dare almost, I invited a young man I know to come. He said, "Why didn't I hear about this in my parish?" and accepted immediately. Then he added, "I think there's another guy who'd like to come too."
If parochial clergy aren't supporting what few pathetic attempts we ARE making to encourage people to hear the Lord's voice calling, we have a real communication problem. We're communicating apathy.
Pray for us at the Seminary. So far, thank God, it's been a very good year.
Fr. Jack Custer

RE: "Come and see" weekend at our seminary.

Fr. Jack wrote: "...brochures went out to the office of vocations in each eparchy nearly 2 months ago."

Really?

Can you post the details?

Thank you for the effort on your side of the border. Glad to hear that you all are having a good year at the seminary.

Joe ,

Sorry if I seemed to be rather touchy - I think this is possibly one of these different English problems. Here 'Mass Factories' is not a welcome term - not used by Catholics but is a term of belittlement by others.

Oh and I do have problems with the use of Pastor - just as an odd bit of information - the term is used by Protestant Churches but invariably by those who stand and protest outside such august meetings as the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland - their posters usually say "No Popery" and such - these folk are rather a nuisance as you will understand

Angela

Angela,

No problem. As for "pastor" I don't know what to say since here in the States we have numerous Pastoral ministry programs by that name.

How about "pastoral plants?" Forgive me.

Joe Thur

I have noticed something in my skimming of this thread.....

I am using a quote from Fr Jack Custer as it expresses what I have seen explicitly.

Are we saying, older men need not apply?

The discussion talk about education and how we present vocations to our children...

What about older men? Older men that possibly do not have a bachelors degree?

David, an older man discerning a vocation

DavidB,

There is nothing holding you back from contacting your pastor, vocation director, and the seminary. You are implying that you are of legal age, right? The age group Fr. Jack mentions consists of some who are under the legal age and may be still living at home or are at college or working but haven't settled down. A different class of men compared to adults and older folks who may have a different state in life (property, job, family(?) and the like). Check out the main page of this website for the individual eparchy links and scroll down to your vocation director's phone number and give him a call. The seminary staff has been very hospitable for guests who come and see on their own.

Advice: To save yourself from a tearing out your hair, make sure to ditto your request to another church representative (your pastor and/or spiritual director) so a third party knows you are doing this - given the communications problem. What are you contemplating; the diaconate, the presbyterate, the monastic life?

Good luck and get going! Let us know how it goes or send me a private message.

Joe Thur

I haven't any earth-shattering solutions or insights - nothing that hasn't been tried before.

But, I think there are some things that can and should be done that have been mentioned here and there throughout this thread:

1. Prayer - and more prayer (Including continuing the Vocation Icon and encouraging parents to be "generous" to God with their children in encouraging them to consider serving God in a religious vocation)

2. Personal Invitation (Both the clergy and the folks in the pews personally inviting men and women to consider serving God in and through the Church - we see with Fr. Jack's example that this can and does work)

3. Organization and contacts (volunteer or paid) with the proper information (come-and-see dates, deadlines, procedures, requirements, etc.) who have the time and patience to both follow-through and follow-up on inquiries and the disposition to work with those considering serving God through the Church (probably preferably someone who's "been there")

4. Formation and service within the parish (Through heartfelt liturgies, inspiring homilies, and service opportunities - not just serving alongside other parishioners, but also priests, deacons, and sisters)

5. Formation and service at Otpusts and other events (The exposure to so many clergy and religious at Uniontown can be inspiring for all ages, and the opportunities to be with like-aged Byzantines for the younger generations can help inspire them in the Faith.)

6. Discussion and brainstorming amongst clergy and religious sisters as to how they came to serve Christ in the Church. Joe, Fr. Elias, Fr. Jack, and others who are already in service to the Church and/or are preparing to serve the Church, what led you to the point of service? What were the key elements that got you where you are? I think we can really learn about fostering vocations through those who are preparing for and living out their vocations.

7. Grace to respond to the invitation to serve... which leads us back to #1: Prayer.

With prayers for an increase in vocations,
Kelly

Joe,
I was mainly commenting on the fact that this thread titled "Byzantine Vocations" there has been no discussion of those vocations that fall outside of a set idea.

That is older vocations, people without bachelors degrees.

I am in touch with people and discerning where I am called to be. Right now I think that is the monastic life, anything more than that is up to others I believe, but I hold out hope for the diaconate, as I do not have a bachelors degree.

While our church may be open to older vocations I do believe that there is the idea that "no bachelors degree? no need to apply".

Do not get me started on the Latin Church and its ideas....

Just a sampling, I will try not to rant to much.

Most orders have a hard stop on vocations at age 35. Most want bachelors degrees. Most want no debt, this includes student loans.....

So, please allow this small rant, Under 35 with bachelors degree but no debt (or student loan).... Where can they find these men?

David

Here's another thing to consider -

How do the Ruthenian and Ukrainian Churches view former Latins (canonical transfer concluded) who might be drawn to the priesthood. No arguments about dodging celibacy - I'm only considering in this post those candidates who would embrace celibacy in the Ruthenian and Ukrainian Churches.

With the eparchial priests of Van Nuys (that is ordained for the eparchy of Van Nuys) having last names such as Hernandez, O'Brien, and Burnette you could draw your own conclusion.

What do you mean? These are Anglicized slavic names! You know - Hernandovich, Obrienov, and Bernetski!

In response to the ex-Latin question above - my married Ukrainian Catholic pastor's last name is MacKinnon - Carpatho-Scotch ? Hebridean Slavic?

He went through a Latin permanent diaconate program in the days before any Ukrainian, Melkite or Ruthenian programs existed and was accepted as a candidate for the priesthood. He did, however, have to have to prove a change of church sui juris before being accepted as a candidate for the priesthood and had to have written consent from his wife.

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, and I'm not sure I care to, but anastasios you almost make me want to sign up and follow you under whatever Eastern Christian banner you fly. You are a head of your time. The Christian Church is undeserving of you. If Jesus is your Lord then he certainly has a good vassal.

I will say that you should give the spirit of Dr John's post some good recognition. I think in spirit he is correct in at least one major way - Be Who You Are. The amount of deception that goes on in the Roman Church is almost enough to make me vomit. Yes Christianity should bend and be flexable to various cultures - modern cultures - but by-god stay true to who you are also. And those that will serve in truth and loyalty will come. Maybe not in the representation you think though.

The truth of the situation is that there is a great culture war going on. Christianity is on the loosing end. Vocations to the Priesthood start in the home as a child, society and it's values can not be factored out of this at all, outside of this vocations may be spun from repented sinners willing to give up everything including their life to fight on the right side of the war, and serve their Lord well. Christianity outside of John Paul II may not have the generalship to arise to the challenge. If there would be a competent player, in at least the western world, I would have to say I would put my money on the force of Islam.

Justin