www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Holy Supper on Holy Thursday and Fish on Good Friday

Friends,

1) A friend who is in a BC parish here in the USA tells me they are having Holy Supper on Thursday evening after Vespers with the St. Basil Liturgy. I have only heard of Holy Supper on the eves of Christmas and Theophany. Has anyone heard of this before?

2) Among the Ruthenian BCs is fish allowed on Good Friday? I can't remember now, please be patient. I know what the traditional position is I am asking about the current practice in the USA.

Thanks all.

Tony

I've never heard of a Holy Supper around Great Week either. But that does bring to mind a question. Do folks tend to fast/abstain from midnight to midnight or nightfall to nightfall? A Holy Supper after Great Thursday Liturgy would seem to suggest night to night.

It is my understanding that the current law of the Byzantine Catholic (Ruthenian) Church of America allows fish on Great Friday.

Hi Tony,

CIX!

I've never heard of a "Holy Supper" like Christmas or Theophany on Holy Thursday, BUT I have heard of some OCA churches holding the Vesperal Liturgy in the late afternoon (4-5 PM), having a communal meal, and then holding the "Strasti" Matins. I was told this by word of mouth, so I do not have any specifics as to who, where, etc.

Have a good Great Week and Pascha!

Dave

I have not heard of a Holy Supper for anything other than Christmas and Yordan, either. I know of several RC and Protestant parishes that have Sater meals on that night, perhaps it is an imitation of a similar practice.

In terms of the traditional Byzantine fast, Good Friday is a day of strict fast with no fish, wine or oil allowed in addition to meat and dairy products.

Dear Tony,

Yes, each of the Vesperal Divine Liturgies are followed by a supper, not a dinner, since each is inside of a period of fasting(Annunciation {in the Slavic tradition} and Holy Thursday) or strict fasting (Eves of Pascha, Nativity and Theophany).

The Vesperal Divine Liturgy of Pascha (usually incorrectly held in the morning of Holy Saturday but actually prescribed by the rubrics for 4:00 PM/the tenth hour) is to be followed by bread, white wine, and "a few dates" as a typikon from 1555 has it.

One of two Albanian Orthodox (OCA) parishes in Philadelphia will have a 4:30 Vesperal Divine Liturgy on Holy Thursday. The other will have a 9:00 AM "Vesperal" Divine Liturgy.

As you know well, theologically speaking, every eucharistic offering culminates in a meal which consists of His body and blood along with the bread and wine offered. What we do afterwards is just a supplement to this most precious supper of all!

A blessed Holy Week and Pascha to you!

With love in Christ,
Andrew

Dear Friends,

Certainly, the Ethiopian Church has the tradition of a special Passover meal on Holy Thursday.

Our "Orthodox in communion with Rome" parishes would frown on fish on any fast day as fish has a backbone and is therefore meat . . .

Others would allow for fish. Gone are the days when everyone did what the local bishops decreed.

Alex

Dear Brethren,

Alex has gotten me thinking.....(in other words, complain to him)....

It has always seemed to me to be a kind of contradiction that we would have a Divine Liturgy and not follow it by a feast of some level, at least, for example, with wine and oil! (Not that I personally keep the fasts without oil, but strictly this is the case and many of the faithful, may God bless them, do keep the fasts without oil.)

This is certainly the case with the Holy Thursday Vesperal Liturgy. Is it a sort of bitter feast or feast of mourning, knowing that one member leaves the feast to go and betray the Christ?

Or is it better explained as a feast delayed until Pascha?

This second explanation makes a little more sense when we realize that the Vesperal Divine Liturgies on the Eves of Theophany and Nativity are not followed by feasts. The feasting is delayed until the next day after the morning liturgy!

So then, what of the glorious Annunciation, that often explodes mid-week onto the lenten fast? It is not a feast of mourning and it anticipates no other feast. It is celebrated with fish (meat by some reckonings), wine and oil! And perhaps that helps prove the point that these other exceptions (Holy Thursday, Eves of Theophany and Nativity) have special explanations for their lack of feasting.

What do you think? Are there other explanations?

A blessed Holy Week, Pascha, and Bright Week to all!

With love in Christ,
Andrew