www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization What to wear?

Dear AV,

Ofcourse you make some good points.

I will admit that I went to presanctified Liturgy last night in jeans and a jacket (that covered my bottom), but there are very few people there for those services, so it is generally casual.

On Sundays, I think that it is nice if we honor the day and the sanctity of the service with just a little dressing up-- as the generation before us always did. I think that shows respect for ourselves and others. A woman's pantsuit, as you wear, is most definitely showing such respect. On the other hand, sweatshirts, messy hair, and sneakers don't really.

ROCOR is the Russian Orthodox Church outside of Russia. They are very conservative, traditional, strict and old world. There is a special beauty associated with their church. If one were to visit their church, one should respect their dress code and cover the head and wear a long skirt.

The monastery I visit (Greek Orthodox in the tradition of Mt. Athos) has the same dress code as ROCOR churches. Although dressing that way is not my usual style, I do respect it for the period of time I am there. I respect it out of reverence to the monks that shun vanity (they have even removed all mirrors from the walls of bathrooms, etc.) and out of reverence to the holy path they are following. They don't need to see women dressed in a way that may bring them temptation. I also find it somewhat refreshing to put aside all worldly vanity, because whenever I have done so, it truly makes me focus on the spiritual completely and totally. It is also totally humbling to be so obedient and covered up, and that is never a bad thing...even if only for a visit.

In Christ,
Alice

It's about respecting the customs and values of the people and their Church. We have touched on this a few times on various threads about sesitivity to dress standards in other Churches. It's no about what we think is important or not it's about them and their feelings. The ROCOR is very conservative and if you wish to go to their Church they do ask you show them respect by respecting their dress standards.

ICXC
NIKA

Here's one for the books. I visited a Russian Orthodox Church, and being a student was carrying a backpack with books, etc., as is normally the case. I was told afterwards by my grandmother that I shouldn't have gone, because people thought I would have looked like a terrorist. Sad, sad, sad...what not to wear.

N

Hard one to figure out? I went to the Slovak Orthodox :p cathedral in Presov last year with a real backpack and wearing camouflage clothing and no one looked twice. I even had an "arab" scarf around my neck.

Even with all that you probably look like either German or American tourist and everyone just got on with the task in hand. Ned on the otherhand having just come from the Uni, probably looks like he is about to lead the revolution and was closely watched to make sure he and the bag stay as one and left togther .

ICXC
NIKA

Thanks to everyone who wrote a reply to my post. I understand the respect that should be shown in particular settings - for example my company that is small but powerful had a VIP reception for dignitaries and many others. We were eager to make a certain impression on those in attendance. I was required to wear a consertivative, tasteful dress, hinting at the notion of expensive as well. I did as I was required, but... that is business. And clubs and organizations sure, you abide by the same in order to "fit in" or "show respect". But the Church isn't a club or business reception. My real question and comment is the coin phrase, but useful here; what would Jesus do (wear)? I think He would respect tradition, but like the person with the backpack... he might just show up as is.
I don't begin to say I understand the tradition of dress in long skirts, covering of the head and standing on one side of the Church, opposite of the men... but I think attending Mass with my family of five children, sitting together is what seems appropriate. I generally don't go in public in disarray, but on Saturday night a man in front of me was, and worse. My thought was "good for him" and we should all be so humbled that we have nice clothing to wear, warm water to wash in, and a good foundation in which to know how to take care of ourselves. My children didn't bat an eye at this stranger. I teach tolerence in my home.

I do too, and I am sure that every poster here does as well!

Ofcourse tolerance goes both ways: for those that dress up, for those that dress down, for those that are rich, and for those that are poor.

The content of a person's heart and soul are not determined by their outward appearance, and we should never judge those that chose not to look or dress like how we like to dress, though conservative dress and decorum in a society that is quickly losing all sense of decorum, is always appropriate...I am sure that you agree.

In Christ's love,
Alice

I always think of those Churches in Papau New Guinea where men can go up to communion stark naked (more usually wearing a strategically placed gourd) or women topless. I know it is an extreme but it happens in Church somewhere. Now these people think they look wonderful and the nice feathers in their elaborate hair do is festal best.

I think we can get carried away by what our neighbour is wearing. Some have no sense of appropriate fashion, some are just a bit short of the $$$ and are wearing their best flip flops (called thongs in Australia). I think that it is a difficult area to address without causing embarassment or hurt to some and we dont want to do that. There are ways of dealing with this but it is not for anyone to do, as we dont all have that tact needed to get the message over to those who need to cover up and leave those who are wearing their best T shirt alone.

Personally as I am now in middle age I wear long trousers (gave up wearing shorts ages ago the knees are not the sexy things they once were ,shorts is not a ref. to the American garment of the same name, always have those, do not wish to bring same to mother ) and depending on the weather and the occasion a shirt, maybe a tie. Conservative I think.

ICXC
NIKA

Dear AV1212 you said:

"People are probably scared off with all these crazy dress code rules. I wonder what Jesus would say about that."

I say:

What would Jesus say?

I recall an Orthodox Jewish girl telling me that they have certain 'laws' that have no meaning. She stated that one of them was that they were not allowed to wear linen.

Well I told her: That certainly had meaning. Linen was probably the finest fabric that existed, and undoubtably it was very 'suggestive' when worn. Another law was that woman were not supposed to bend over. Well I'll leave that to one's imagination.

Now the Orthodox Jewish women actually shave their hair after they are married. I guess they do so in order to be unattractive to other men, after all hair is a woman's glory.

All in all, the important thing is not to distract the men. As for the men distracting us? I doubt it!

Zenovia

I suppose this is why women and men separated in the Church to different places either to one side or other to avoid being a distraction to each other. I think the head shaving is an east European custom of the ultra Orthodox. Many of the Orthodox Jewish women cover their own hair with a scarf or a wig. It is posible that is close cultural groups everyone learns the customs but where there are no such bonds it is difficult to pass on customs. The Byzantines used to also keep womens hair covered, as do many Jews and Muslims. I saw somewhere that a hair fringe in Constantinople was the sign of the whore.

ICXC
NIKA

Dear Pavel you said:

"The Byzantines used to also keep womens hair covered, as do many Jews and Muslims. I saw somewhere that a hair fringe in Constantinople was the sign of the whore."

I say:

This is such an interesting topic...at least to me. I always wondered if Byzantine women covered their faces as well as their hair. I say this because one statue in ancient Greece depicts a girl with a veil covering in the style of the Muslims. The Greek statue was from the East. Undoubtably Asia Minor.

The other reason this arouses my curiousity is because of the 'cone' hats worn by women in the Middle Ages. They say that this orginated in Cyprus. Now I can't help but feel that the veils purpose was to cover the face.

Zenovia

I suspect that a lot of parishes are just glad to get some new people showing up and regardless if the newcomers dress up or not. Then, if they stay (i.e., if the newcomers keep attending), they figure out the unofficial dress code by seeing how everyone else dresses.

-- John

I once visited Notre Dame in Paris, France and outside there was a sign in English, which read, 'No Shorts! Please Respect our Church!'
Since it was in English, and I assumed that the English have a strong sense of decorum - like all Europeans - I felt it was directed at Americans.
I'm glad that Byzantine Catholics dress better than their Roman cousins. I think 'business casual' is appropriate.
-Wolfgang

I agree with you John.

I have to protest that I can not believe there is not another woman out there who can get distracted by a man during Church. I met my fiance because I saw him every Sunday at Mass.