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Mar 25th, 2025
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AMEN!
Wonderfully Stated Alexandr!!!
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Alexandr hit the nail on the head!
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Originally posted by Cathy:
Deacon John,
What's going on in Peoria is the exception and you know it. If what were going on in Illinois were going on in every other state we wouldn't have a problem. And that happens to be an outgrowth of Homerville. Every state in every parish needs to be doing that kind of evangelization. The Light of the East radio show needs to be on as many stations as we can get it on, and it needs to be supported by the Eparchy. Does anyone know if it is? I didn't see that as part of our Stewardship. Amen, We'd love to export it further. It will take some courage but we are willing to come and tell the story. The rest is up to you. CDL
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Slavipodvizhnik, I was not speaking of ROCOR in general, only of the parish in Phoenix. There was a disagreement locally about deeding the property to the diocese, and I believe they are no longer part of ROCOR, but found a Greek old calendarist bishop to shepherd them, who was willing to leave ownership in local hands. I could be wrong on that, but in any case the reason I said may be non-canonical had nothing to do with ROCOR in general, but with the change of jurisdiction of the local parish.
There is also a Ukrainian Orthodox parish that is no longer canonical here as well, because they accepted a remarried priest over the objection of their bishop.
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Dear Jim,
Just a note to warn you about those Ukrainians!
You just never know what they'll be up to next!
I think you know that already though . . .
Ciao,
Alex
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My advice, is to return to Tradition. Return to the Orthodox Calendar, Present a full cycle of services. Provide parish outings to and become active supporters of your local monastery. Revive the mystery of the East. Provide comprehensive adult education. Teach the people Slavonic, Greek, Russian. I agree. Many people do not however, especially regarding the last part. Andrew
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Originally posted by Slavipodvizhnik:
Just an observation from one looking on. It has been my experience that if a Church provides spiritual "meat" instead of "kasha" and "kapusta", that Church will be full. I can use my situation as an example. I live near Pittsburgh, which as most of you know, is EC/Orthodox central, i.e. Little Kiev. But if one looks deeper, past the golden domes glinting above the rivers, one sees empty Churches, with a handful of Babyshki, priests serving at 2, 3 even more parishes, just to keep the cycle of services going and empty collection plates with an occasional much-folded dollar bill. The sound of silence and muttered prayers abound, the eery lack of children's voices is immediately noticable. But there is a solution. In 1984, ROCOR established a mission parish in a 2 car garage, about 30 miles south of Pittsburgh. Today, that number has grown to 4 full parishes, with 4 priests and over 1000 families. Why, when all around, the other Churches are dying? Because there is "meat" being provided there. Full cycle of services, fasting, religous education, preservation of Traditions, both capital and small. Just the opposite of what our hierarchs have been telling us for 50 years. The people are hungry, but it has been the habit of the our Churches, both Orthodox and Catholic to provide fluff instead of sustenence, social settings instead of worship. Thinking back on this past Pascha at the Church in McKeesport, even cynical me was impressed. People were jammed everywhere! We had to keep all the doors open because there was no more room in the Church and the faithful stood outside, on the steps to the choir loft, even onto the road in front of the Church! And no, I am not talking new wave Russian immigration. Our total new wave population is less than 15 families. As warden, I chuckled at seeing some of our eminent local BC clergy present. It felt strange saying "Christos Voskrese, Monsignier" in a ROCOR Church! Same deal at Christmas.
My advice, is to return to Tradition. Return to the Orthodox Calendar, Present a full cycle of services. Provide parish outings to and become active supporters of your local monastery. Revive the mystery of the East. Provide comprehensive adult education. Teach the people Slavonic, Greek, Russian. If my priest, who is married and has 6 kids can do it, why can't the celibate clergy provide even more? People won't run from 3 hour services if you are giving them what they are crying out for. So dump the 45 minute Sunday Liturgy, dump the Bingo and Polka masses, Put your Iconostasii back up and start behaving as Eastern Christians and not as the dwindling survivors of some dying emigration.
S'nami Bog
Alexandr A wonderful post! There is much wisdom in the call to pray our tradition in its fullest form instead of revising it. I have regular contact with 2 ROCOR parishes that are both incredibly spirit-filled. I try to keep the Old Calendar feasts at St. John the Baptist Cathedral in Washington, DC (as a refuge from the current Passaic Divine Liturgy). I also attend St. Alexander Nevsky Church in Richmond, Maine when I am vacationing in Maine. Both parishes take a very full Vespers, Matins and the Divine Liturgy. Both are crowded with people, young and old. Admin
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John, It does seem strange just when people are clamoring for the real thing that we decide to water it down. It's a trend that will be hard to buck but we intend to try. www.byzantineevangelization.com [ byzantineevangelization.com] CDL
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During the Melkite Convention this year, people commented quite often that St. Georges is more Orthodox than most Melkite Parishes. Nothing has ever been shortened but added to. It seems the more is added the more people come.
Being blessed to +Archbishop Joseph Raya for 27yrs to bring it forth from the many latin-isms imposed upon it through the early years, it reminds me the phoenix rising from the ashes. However, Sayedna Raya was followed by dynamic preists who were willing to take the heat and stand the ground and form a people that has found a wonderdful bounce between the Catholic and Orthodox.
St Georges is a wonderful melting pot, don't know how else to describe it. We are people of Middle Eastern Orgin - bringing that mystery element that only they can give to faith and worship expression. Yet we are many, many Protestant converts, a lot of Ukrainians, Ruthenians, Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, actually we have a few Buddhists now and at least one athiest(so who knows), along with some Episcopalian priests who come as often as possible - our Coptics are now meeting separate now and meet elsewhere - but God is doing a WORK.
Nothing has ever been shortened, but added too, and it grows!
Pani Rose
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Originally posted by Ilian: My advice, is to return to Tradition. Return to the Orthodox Calendar, Present a full cycle of services. Provide parish outings to and become active supporters of your local monastery. Revive the mystery of the East. Provide comprehensive adult education. Teach the people Slavonic, Greek, Russian.
Andrew I realize that many have a perception that this is America and that English should be sufficient. However true that may be, it still remains a fact that not 1/1,000,000 of Russian spiritual writings have been translated into English, to say nothing of the Greek! The writings of St Ignaty Brachiannov, St Feofan the Recluse, the Letters Of Starets Amvrossy, etc immediately come to mind. The quantity and availability of English spirtual literature is scant and sporadic, and what is available is often of scant use and questionable accuracy as regarding the translation. St Ignaty Brachiannov's works immediately come to mind. His Russian is so flowery, with implied double meanings and almost poetic overtones, that I would not even attempt to translate them into English. It would be like trying to read Pushkin in English. Try it and you'll wonder why Russians make such a big fuss over him. But in the original Russian, Angels sing through his words! Alexandr
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I suppose it is worth pointing out that followers of Islam also say worshippers need to learn Arabic in order to experience the fullness of the Koran and their Faith. They believe that the Koran loses something in translation. The same argument about going back to sources in original languages is given by every group whose language is being subordinated to some other language in the here and now- Greeks, Russians, Armenians, etc. It can be true for some, but it doesn't fly with lots of people, especially those without an ethnic connection to that group.
Fortunately, God transcends language even if mankind doesn't.
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It is interesting that the Eastern Catholics are experiencing much what Latin Rite Catholics did in the time following Vatican II. Actually many of the changes in the Latin Liturgy that one see's in most Roman Churches was never authorized by Vatican II but the product of so called liturgists. Now after over 40 years there is a rebirth of tradition in the Latin Rite. But that rebirth is grieving many more modern faithful. I attended a Tridentine Mass authorized by the Diocese of Phoenix and it basically was a liturgy of the priest...the people sat quietly not responding. I would prefer a blended liturgy but maybe The Dormition of the Theotokas Catholic Church in Phoenix has it right...they offer one Liturgy in English and one in Russian. As one blogger pointed out, some,especially converts, do not have the ethnic background to appreciate the old languages.
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I suppose it is worth pointing out that followers of Islam also say worshippers need to learn Arabic in order to experience the fullness of the Koran and their Faith. Not only that...I believe I just heard again or read somewhere that it is Islam that is the fastest growing religion worldwide...the need to learn Arabic apparently is not stopping them from tremendous growth...
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(Actually, Phoenix Rising, Dormition doesn't use Russian. It uses Ukrainian.)  Dormition sort of has 2 different congregations as well, one on the Gregorian calendar, the other on the Julian. Tough on the priest, I would think- 2 Holy Weeks, etc.
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Originally posted by Jim:
I suppose it is worth pointing out that followers of Islam also say worshippers need to learn Arabic in order to experience the fullness of the Koran and their Faith. They believe that the Koran loses something in translation. The same argument about going back to sources in original languages is given by every group whose language is being subordinated to some other language in the here and now- Greeks, Russians, Armenians, etc. It can be true for some, but it doesn't fly with lots of people, especially those without an ethnic connection to that group.
Fortunately, God transcends language even if mankind doesn't. Liturgical language is a whole other matter. What I am referring to is spiritual and edifying writings, teachings on the faith, homiletics, Dogmatic and Pastoral theological works, etc. The quantity of such materials in English is almost nada. How do you expect people to become educated in the faith when there are no learning materials available to them? Alexandr
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