www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Which Byzantine Rite/Church is thriving?

Dear Pani Rose,

It is wonderful to hear of such a successful parish, and you are blessed to be part of it...or perhaps I should also say--*they* are blessed to have you as a part of it!

In Christ's love,
Alice

A link to Baptism at St Georges with an explanation
http://www.melkite.org/Baptism.html
Now-
Our Stephanie and Marley's Baptism, most are done on Sunday morning. However, due to the convention and everything that was approaching it was done on Sat. evening, ordinarily the church would be full.


http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/srwan1/album?.dir=/ef6fre2&.src=ph&.tok=phRFmVFBCasefwLS

The Divine Liturgies at Dormition of the Theotokos are celebrated in English and Ukrainian (not Russian).

You are correct, I doubt the Ukrainians would appreciate their Divine Liturgy's being celebrated in Russian.

Deacon,
Have you ever heard a liturgy celebrated in Russian?
I've heard Liturgies in Church Slavonic...

Since our background is Polish (well my hubby anyway) then our Church is Ruthenian with the Slavonic, yet we are in a Melkite Church with the Arabic and Greek.

Talk about heaven - all the tones and languages run through my head in resounding joy as my mind and spirit sing, raising the hymns of praise to our God.

To never have experienced the old languages is truly a loss.

The Koran was originally written in Arabic. The Greek in which the Bible was written is a special kind of greek that no one speaks whereas classical Arabic is still in use. So,that can't be justification for making folks learn old eastern european languages, no matter how beautiful they sound.(As a translator I respect languages and know that every language has its beauty).

I'm sure there are many writings that haven't been translated, but maybe it's time to press translators into service. Encourage an interest in translation for those with the talent and inclination for it (otherwise, you're asking for trouble) , and a couple of churches go in together and pay for translations into english.Consider hiring someone in Europe to do it since professional translating is taken more seriously there. I know, expensive, but eventually it will have to be done. Better a job very well done than mistranslations that will haunt you in the future.

If the Eastern Rite and Orthodox are going to survive outside of their native lands they must provide services in the dominant language of the land. Even if everyone learned these languages aren't many of the writings written in non-Roman alphabet?

The Roman Catholic church at one time conducted all services in Latin, and it eventually became a unifier. (Though, folks complained about that too. My guess is folks weren't properly educated in latin so they were repeating by rote as opposed to understanding what was said.A shame that)Greek could possibly pass as a unifier for converts ,but not for those still culturally tied to specific EC and Orthodox churches. If you're serious about evangelization and reaching out , lets face it, non Slavic and non-greek converts are likely going to be the norm in coming years.

A Latina whose second language is English is not going to look forward to learning to speak and read Russian just to worship.She'll either go towards an English language service, go Antiochan orthodox if she is determined to worship under Orthodox theology or stay in the Roman Catholic church. And that's worth considering because there are Spanish speakers out there looking for churches.(services in Spanish would just lead to more ethnic enclaves being formed.Not a good idea)

So, though I agree with some of the other suggestions, the language one (as others have mentioned)won't fly.I'm not saying kick out all services that are now in non-English languages, but realize and prepare for the day when the need for them will dwindle .

Peace,
Indigo

Yes, I agree BUT.....(Don't you just love buts!?!)
A wise man once said "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, Teach him to fish and he will feed himself for life". No doubt, translations must be done. I know that in my Jurisdiction, Fr. Lawrence Campbell and Reader Issac Lambertson are diligently turning out translations left and right. But even if we took 1000 translators and put them to work 24 hours a day, it would still take decades to translate all that is available! Has anyone ever seen the library at Pechersky? You'll see what I mean! My emphasis, which some seem to have missed, is not on the language used during services, but learning other languages so that one can educate onself from the vast resources available to those that can read them!

As far as liturgical language, yes, the predominant local language should be used, together in measure with the traditional languages, so that all may understand, and yet learn at the same time. In my home parish, we serve about 50/50 Slavonic/English, changing every week so, for example, one week the Nicene Creed is in Slavonic, next Sunday, English. As a result of this policy, I have new American converts singing in Slavonic and New wave Russians singing in English. We have classes available to teach our new Russian parishoners English, as well as to teach our American born parishoners Slavonic and English. I know of an African American Reader who reads beautifully in Slavonic. What has to be avoided is the hard line approach, as in "You MUST learn Greek/Russian?Slavonic/Arabic/English, whatever. The end result for us has been a multi-cultural Russian parish, the oxymoron that that may seem to be! It brings a smile to my face to see a 65 year old Italian Grandmother clutching her little Azbyka (Slavonic ABC's) under her arm as she leaves class just as much as helping a new Russian try to decipher her driver education book to pass her driving test so that she can get a job.
Do I forsee the day that Slavonic/Greek/ Arabic will not be used at all in America? Absolutely not. These are the Traditions of the East, and as Eastern Christians, we should respect and hold true to these conditions, just as Western Christian should hold fast to their Latin Traditions. We can always look to what happened to the Roman Church when it lost it's liturgical roots.

Alexandr

I just realized how bad this sounds! Please forgive me if I have inadvertantly offended anyone!

Alexandr

The classical Arabic in the Qur'an is not the same as spoken Arabic, although some Arabs like to claim it is. Infact he Arabic in the Qur'an is mainly understood through interpretation, not even by native modern Arabic speakers.

See this article about the varieties of Arabic [en.wikipedia.org] .

Hehehehe - you have just ahown how much you are a member of Byzcath

Unitl your apology - I hadn't noticed and I strogly suspect that very few others had either.

No offense was intended and I'm certain that no offense was taken

Alexandr, I don't agree with you entirely, but I must admit I like your friendly enthusiasm and passion. I've noticed your posts are always characterized by them, so I look for them when lurking.I wonder what's lurking in that mind though; it took me four posts before I realized why your apologizing for such an innocent remark I rather liked your,um, 'conjunction usage'.

I'm glad to hear things are working out so well in your church. I still wonder though if the writings are in Roman alphabet or cyrillic (or greek),in which case that will still be a problem in the future as even second and third generation Slavs will likely not be able to read older spiritual texts either.

I guess, I'm burnt out on the cultural stuff and would rather not learn yet another culture and language in order to worship.But, that's just me. Again, I'm glad to hear there are places where it works.

Michael, thanks for the Arabic info I'll run it by my Muslism friends too.Interesting.

Peace

Inidgo,
You write that about learning Russian to worship.
I think a VITAL point needs to be made, especially since you gave your two cents on not having to learn another language to worship and then pointing to having to learn Russian to worship.
It is called Church Slavonic, not Russian. These are two seperate languages.
Russian isn't used the canonical Orthodox Churches, it would be Church Slavonic. If any of the Russian Byzantine Catholic parishes in the USA use Russian, please let me know.

But, everybody's got one!

So this is what you look like Hesychios!!

Alice

Yes, that's me before I put on a few extra pounds!