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Some people believe that girls/women should have no part in liturgy whatsoever, and specifically that they should not be allowed to chant the epistle reading. Their justification is that if girls/women take that role, then boys won't come forward, and the end result will be to discourage priestly vocations. They have also tried to discourage girls from taking a role in cantoring.

Presumably, the conservative group uses St. Paul's admonition that "women should keep silent in the church." How does one reconcile St. Paul with the active roles assumed by Mary Magdalen, "Equal to the Apostles," and other women in the early Church?

Altar servers keep silent during liturgy. Should girls/women be allowed to take on that role? Often Father has no servers, especially for daily liturgy. Is there any canon law that prohibits women from taking a more active role in church ministry? Or are they only to make pirohis and pray that men will step forward and serve?

Dear Sophia Wannabe,

Slava Isusu Christu.

What a tough question. I do feel for you. At our parish, our primary cantor is a lady, and I feel she is the best cantor in the Eparchy! Especially during the Divine Liturgys of St. Basil. What a voice. Have you thought of being a choir member and learning to chant as a backup for your current cantor? This may open a door or two for you.

When we do processions, there is a mix of young and wise, male and female, and this ensures a cross representation of our parish.

Regarding serving at the alter, the canons and rubrics are extremely clear that only men can enter the space between earth and Heaven.

Have you thought of assisting with the Cathechism class for the youth and adults? Christian Formation is a very vital part of our structure, and as a teacher, you can have a huge impact on the lives and outcome of our younger members and the future of our Church. This is a huge role in the Church's Ministry, the teaching of The Word, just as Mary Magdelene did. With this skill, you also can then witness to your neighbors and friends to help find the True Faith of the Apostolic Church.

Question about your comment regarding alter servers-this is to all, please.

Do the alter servers in your parishes stay quiet during the liturgy? At my parish, we participate fully in the Divine Liturgy and sing with gusto, except when our Father is doing his silent prayers, then we sort of mute our chanting till he is done. Is this wrong? Am I violating any canons or rubrics?

Oh Sophia, I have heard comments from a couple of my friends wishing "they were men" just to be able to assist more fully at the Divine Liturgy, and I do feel for you, however, through His Divine Providence, each of us has a call to fully participate, and you will find that need/niche, I am certain, basecd on the fact that your are questioning what is possible.

Hang in there. Also, helping to raise funds for the parish is extremely important, and the making of a good pirohy or kolachi is an event that not everyone can do! I have assisted and know how much of a skill that can require to ensure the pirohy cook correctly and do not fall apart!

In Christ,

Michael

"Regarding serving at the alter, the canons and rubrics are extremely clear that only men can enter the space between earth and Heaven." ???????

How demeaning to women.

Guess the only exception is when the altar linens need changing.

How demeaning to women, to think that they can only participate in the Church by imitating the roles of men.

Pavloosh and Pseudo-Athanasius,

Hi. I apologize if my wording is not correct. From all the information that I have read, even the altar linens should be replaced by a male.
We know this is not the case in most instances, but please show me where a women can serve in the altar area during the Divine Liturgy.

Pavloosh, is the "thumbs down" warrented, and if so, is it based on my communication style? In retrospect, I realize it could have been eliminated from my response, but Sophia W. brought up the point of female altar servers, and I have observed similar dialougue with the topic of Female Deacons in discussion elsewhere, at which point, I believe canons were discussed.

Psuedo-Athanasious, please provide some other examples then of ways for Sophia to work towards fulfilling her quest, which may have been Divinely inspired, and teach me also.

Thank you.

Michael

What is the quest? To become more Godlike?

Pray.
Fast.
Do works of mercy.
Teach.
Sanctify the world.

It's clericalism, to think that one isn't really participating in liturgy unless one is behind the icon screen.

One could switch to the Latin Rite...our lector, cantor, 2 altar servers, and 6 EMHC's were all female...I'll stop at this point...

I assumed the Eastern Catholic Churches mirrored their Orthodox counterparts.

james

Dear Michael,

Your post was charitable and was only reinforcing Eastern church teaching. As a woman, I did not find it demeaning in any way.

In Christ,
Alice

Michael, thank you for your comments. As a matter of fact, I am already a cantor. And we have another single woman who is a cantor and also chants the epistle.

My concern is for some of our young girls whose families oppose their taking a public role in the liturgy. And for those whose parents support their taking such a role, they, their parents and our priest have come under criticism.

We are all supposed to use our God-given talents, and some of these young women are very talented in chanting. They take this ministry very seriously, previewing and practicing the epistle beforehand, rather than simply "winging it" the way most of the men do. The message is often much more understandable as a result.

Jakub, the families in question are/were Roman Catholic. Ordination is not required to chant the epistle or cantor, so why should these girls be singled out for criticism?

Pseudo-Athanasius, the question here is not one of salvation and becoming more Godlike, but rather ministering to our communities according to our talents.

Cantors work into their ministry in steps. They are obliged to stand at the Kliros throughout each service, and to lead (at first assist) the congregation's singing. Knowledge of the services and use of the typikon is required for actual leading, as well as the ability to sing on pitch, to project the voice, and to enunciate satisfactorily. Anyone who is interested in this calling should be prepared in all these ways before being considered for reading the epistle itself. To want to read the epistle without this preparation is to put the cart before the horse, IMHO.

Sophia,

Many Orthodox parishes allow women to chant the Epistle.. I don't see any reason why you aren't allowed to do this in your Eastern Catholic parish and there are many roles outside the Holy Place. I think the attitude you are running up against in your parish is a bit backward to say the least.

I think one of the best cantors/cantorkas in the Byzantine Catholic Church in the US is a woman: El Nora Rusnak of Holy Angels parish in San Diego. LOVELY voice and knowledge of the Services

I must admit, I have a extreme problem with women being within and around the altar area as happens in most Latin Rite Churches today. If properly taught I have no problems with lectors and cantors.

When it comes to family matters/relationships with the Church, I leave that situation to be resolved between the priest and family.


james

Hello,

Altar Servers? Hmmmm. In reality, it should be an ordained Subdeacon to be a de-facto "altar server."

I believe the reason for Altar Servers is because of shortage of subdeacons.

If we restore subdiaconate, then we wouldn't even have this discussion of male-female roles in the Liturgy because it's pretty clear that no females are allowed in the "Holy of Holies".

But let me add that women do have HUGE roles in the Liturgy by cantoring, singing in choir, etc. I have seen plenty of women doing fantastic job in cantoring, better than men!

Also, let me point out the worlds most noble profession of women: motherhood. It's the mothers that brought forth priests, subdeacons, etc. Same motherhood of Theotokos that brought forth the Incarnate Word of G-d. WOW!

It's the rib of Adam that turn out to be the most important part of humanity...to shield the heart of humanity and protect the breath of G-d's life in men.

There is NOTHING demeaning about not allowing women in the Altar area. Nothing. Not EVEN men are allowed in there without a reason. Not even a priest or even a bishop.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

I have also wondered about this topic.

My question is a little more pointed.

I know that some are a little uncomfortable with women replacing the linens, chanting or reading the epistle (and even a few) with women being (lead or secondary) cantors.

My question is how does a parish go about working out a specific situation, such as follows: what if you have a qualified woman to do the above mentioned tasks. She has been the primary one doing these various tasks for an extened amount of time. Now, a male in the parish becomes available or joins and seems to be "more qualified."

A) How do you determine this qualification based on the respecitve "ministries"

B) Do you discontinue a woman's service in all the respective cases and why or why not?


As for me, I am not able to find anything that says a woman may not read or chant the espistle or be a cantor (primary or assistant). I am only aware of rubics and such that do not allow women to serve at the altar, or even to be behind the iconostatsis (as those, only according to their due, are allowed)