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Glory to Jesus Christ! Dicsoseg Jeszus Krisztusnak!

I don't believe I've ever noticed this. Are you sure? I'll check it out this Sunday.

Also, I'm not sure it's politically correct, or even historically accurate (pace Pekar), to describe Hungarian Greek Catholics as Magyarized Rusyns. I know for a fact it's not acceptable in my household, no matter how many Slav branches and twigs I can identify in my wife's family tree.

St. Michael's in Perth Amboy doesn't have an icon screen and is very Latinized. How exactly is it a facsimile of the Mariapocs church (which has a floor-to-ceiling screen)?

St. Joe's in New Brunswick is a beautiful little church, which I attended (and cleaned) while I was an undergrad. The people there were extremely warm.

In Christ,
Theophilos

Theophilos,

Good to see you!

Steve

Steve:

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Good to see you, too. Hope all is well.

In Christ,
Theophilos

My father was cantor and choir director at St. John's in Rahway for several years, and was recently back doing some part-time directing for them as well as iconography, and I wrote that on his first hand experience. I have been to that church many times, but I never actually looked at the cornerstone. Dad also tells me several in that parish view themselves as ethnic Hungarians. I have seen copies of court cases from that parish, and the word "Hungarian" is in their incorporated title.

Dave

Dave:

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Thanks for the clarification. As I said, I'll look closely at the cornerstone this Sunday.

I've never heard any of the parishioners refer to themselves as Hungarian, but it's quite possible, even likely. Its Byzantine Catholic sister church in Rahway -- now St. Thomas the Apostle -- has more than a few ethnic Hungarians.

By the way, St. John is my family's home parish (the Orthodox half, anyway). My cousin by marriage is currently the cantor.

In Christ,
Theophilos

I have been told that today, many of the Hungarian Greek Catholics are descendants of Calvinist and Protestant sectarians, who converted to the Catholic Church through the Eastern Rite. It's probably the only "artificial" eastern Church in a certain way, since Greek was their liturgical language for about a century even when there were no Greeks among them.

There are also Gypsy Greek Catholics. I had the opportunity to see a 1970's TV programme about the gypsies around the world. They showed a Church and a priest wearing hellenic vestments (very Greek), celebrating in Hungarian, and communion was given in a definately Eastern way. But I was shocked to see an electric guitar leading the chant (Please I am not kidding I swear I saw this!). I suppose that now these practices are gone but I am not so sure.

Mexican,

The Byzantine Hungarian Catholic Church is not "artificial", nor was it in the past. Its Byzantine origins trace back as far as the Middle Ages, although it suffered near extinction in the 13th century, as a consequence of the havoc wreaked on the nation by the Tartar invasions. Among the most affected institutions were the monasteries of the Byzantine tradition that had flourished in Hungary and much of Eastern Europe from the 11th into the 13th centuries; they were effectively wiped from the earth.

Admittedly, most Hungarians who came to Byzantine Catholicity in the 16-17th centuries were descendents of Macedonian, Greek, Rus, Slovakian, Serbian, and other immigrants to Hungary, not ethnic Magyars in the first instance. Displaced by Turkish incursions into their own lands, these mainly Orthodox Christians, in time, turned to the Catholicism of their adopted homeland, but chose to do so in the Byzantine tradition that offered a final vestige of their heritage.

As you note, a century later, a number of Calvinist and other Protestant Hungarians, for reasons that I've never seen satisfactorily explained, in converting to Catholicism, elected to embrace the Byzantine Rite.

Ultimately, there was a groundswell of demand for the Liturgy to be served in the vernacular, apparently prompted by realization that this wasn't unknown in the Byzantine Slavic religious communities. (Probably made more pressing because many of the Byzantine hierarchy at the time were not Hungarian, contributing to a clergy-laity divide.) Rome was opposed and most liturgical texts weren't available in Hungarian until the 19th century, and even then were being published without ecclesiastical approbation.

In 1900, HH Leo XIII was petitioned by Hungarian Byzantines for a canonical jurisdiction particular to their Rite and for use of the Hungarian language in their Liturgy and services. Finally in 1912, HH Pius X erected the Diocese of Hajd�dorog for Byzantine Hungarian Catholics. He did not, however, approve the use of Hungarian, other than for non-liturgical purposes; the use of Greek was mandated for the Liturgy and the clergy was instructed to become proficient in its use within 3 years. (Greek served the same role in Byzantine Churches, other than those of the Slav tradition, as did Latin in the Western Church.) Because of the outbreak of WWI, the requirement was never enforced and, 20 years later, Hungarian had been accepted for use and publication of the appropriate texts had been canonically approved and published.

The Romany (or "Rom"; colloquially, "Gypsies"; no relation to Romanians or Egyptians, similarities in names notwithstanding) come in every religious persuasion that one can imagine, although the majority are either Catholic or Orthodox (with a not insignificant Muslim population, as well). Of the Catholics among them, there are both Latin and Eastern (principally Byzantine) faithful. (They frequently move back and forth among Latin, Byzantine, and Orthodox Churches, depending on where they are, the receptiveness of local clergy to them, local religious sites of particular veneration/significance for them, and similar factors.)

The particularities of which Church sui iuris the Eastern Catholics among them embrace is often a function of the nation with which a particular clan or tribe identifies. (Although the nature of their nomadic existence has often allowed them a measure of freedom in border-crossing not enjoyed by more mainstream folks, most Rom populations have linguistic, ethno-cultural, and religious ties to some particular geo-political entity.) BTW, the Catholic Church, as well as some other denominations (the Anglicans come immediately to mind, but are not the only ones), have a designated ministry to the Rom and other itinerant and migrant peoples (e.g., the "Travelers" of Britain and Ireland). In Eastern Europe, the Salesians, among the Latins, and Slovack Jesuits, among Byzantines, have particular apostolates directed at the Rom.

Although there are no defined "usages" peculiar to the Romany, you would be likely to find any manner of customs (including especially the use of musical instruments - even as jarring as we might find the use of an electric guitar to accompany Byzantine chant) introduced by them into any Liturgy served for them - Latin, Byzantine Catholic, or Orthodox. The Rom are, generally, very devoted to their Church, but often highly unconventional in their practice of its ceremonies and the Churches, almost universally, are very tolerant of this. (Perhaps, it would be more accurate to say that the clergy who minister to their spiritual needs are very tolerant, I'm not sure that official ecclesiastical approbation is often sought, or likely to be forthcoming if asked.)

They are devoted to: Saint James the Greater; the Black Madonna (in any of several presentations); Saints Caspar, Melchior, & Balthazar -the Magi; Blessed Ceferino Gim�nez Malla (1861-1936, beatified 1997, a Rom and Secular Franciscan who was shot and killed in Franco's Spain at age 75 for coming to the defense of a priest and then pulling out a rosary when asked if he had any weapons); and, especially to she whom they rever as their patron saint, Saint Sara-la-K�li (Sara the Black). "Saint" Sara (never formally canonized) is said to have been the servant who traveled from Judea to Europe with the 3 Marys, when they fled from the Holy Land after the Crucifixion. She is said to have been a gypsy.

I don't have my Index at hand, but National Geographic, several years back, did at least 2 pieces on the Romany which devoted significant space to the place of religion in their lives. The Rom (and the "Travelers") are particular interests of mine; if you have other questions, I'll be happy to try and answer them.

Many years,

Neil

St. Michael's in Perth Amboy doesn't have an icon screen and is very Latinized. How exactly is it a facsimile of the Mariapocs church (which has a floor-to-ceiling screen)?

It isn't. St. John's Orthodox Church in Perth Amboy is the replica of the Mariapocs church; it is also the home parish of Metropolitan Nicholas of Amissos; his family still attends St. John's, and he will be celebrating his 45th Anniv. of Ordination there on January 11, 2004.

I believe Holy Cross church in manhattan if it is still open was Hungarian

I am a parishoner of St. John's in Solon, Oh, and I believe the Hungarian ethnicity of our church has made our parish more accessible to those of other ethnic groups. Our pastor has been in a position where he would receive rebukes for saying anything in Slavonic or Hungarian, with Slavs angered over Hungarian and the Hungarians insulted by Slavonic. The most peaceful solution to this has been to meet the parishoners where we can all agree, in English!

Not much remains of the Hungarian ethnicity in our parish life beyond great food and some entertainment preferences. While maintaining our Hungarian culture would be great for us Hungarians, it would be a hindrance to half of our parishoners; it is not and has never been their ethnicity!

Us Hungarians still have the opportunity, though, to join a city-wide Hungarian club that has dances, picnics, and other culture-preserving activities.

I rejoice because St. John's has become an American parish that reaches to Italians, Indians, Polish, Semites, Asians, and hopefully more in the unique ministries of our church family.

Anyone know where I can get a Byzantine Prayer Book and/or Liturgy Book in Hungarian?

As early as 35 years ago I remember once being stunned to hear the following announcement over the PA system during a Uniontown Pilgrimate: "The Hungarian Liturgy will be in English"!
Incognitus

Father Al,

Try the Hungarian Bookstore.com

Hungarian Bookstore Religious Offerings [hungarianbookstore.com]

Many years,

Neil

St. Michael's parish in Lorain has recently been closed. I believe the Orthodox bought the building.

Thank you all

This is the compiled list of all the parishes that you reported. I appreciate the time you each took to answer.

Holy Cross, NYC, NY
(or ? Exhaltation of the Holy Cross)
Holy Trinity, Bridgeport, CT
Our Lady of Mariapocs Shrine, Burton, OH
St. Elias, Munhall, PA
St. George, Youngstown, OH ? closed
St. John, Solon, OH
St. John the Baptist, Trumbull, CT
St. John the Baptist, Youngstown, OH ? closed
St. Joseph, New Brunswick, NJ
St. Mary, Coatesville, PA
St. Mary, Duquesne, PA
St. Michael, Lorain, OH ? closed
St. Michael, Perth Amboy, NJ
St. Michael, Oregon, OH
St. Nicholas, Ashtabula, OH
St. Nicholas, Trenton, NJ ? closed
St. Thomas the Apostle, Rahway, NJ
Transfiguration, McKeesport, PA

Many years,

Neil