www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Changing Rites with children

Dear All:

My wife and I are both Roman Catholics, and our two daughters, 6 and 2 were baptized in the Roman Rite. We have been attending the DL at a Byzantine Catholic Church (Ruthenian) for the past three years, and we joined the parish two years ago. Here are my questions.

1) My understanding is that if both my wife and I petiton to change rites, the children will change rites as well. They will then have to affirm this change when they are 14, or return to the Roman Rite. What will be required of them if we change rites? Will they then be Chrismated?

2) If I alone (the father), petition to change rites and it is granted, what becomes of the children? Do they change rites with me as above, with the same requirements?

Thanks in advance for the answers.

Doug

Doug,

The children will indeed transfer their canonical enrollment (the modern-day terminology) if both you and your wife do so. There is, however, no requirement that they affirm anything at age 14.

Should they elect to do so, they have the absolute right to return to their Church of origin (Latin in this case) - but they must elect to exercise it - no one is going to ask it of them.

Yes, they should be communed and chrismated on transfer.

If only one parent transfers, the children only transfer if both parents consent to them doing so.

Hope the info helps. Here is the text of the Canon.

Many years,

Neil

Regardless of what the mother does, the children follow the rite of the father. If you change your rite then your children will by default be Byzantine. You should have them Chrismated as soon as your rite change is effected. As they get older they may undergo a rite change back to the Roman rite. This information is in accordance with the teaching of the tribunal of the Byzantine Ruthenian Jurisdiction.

John,

That is not the case, automatically, in the situation where both parents are Catholic and only one parent is changing their Church of enrollment. As indicated by Canon 34, which I quoted above ...

Many years,

Neil

Neil and John,

Thanks very much for the information. Neil, I especially appreciate the Canon Law reference, that is exactly what I was looking for.

Brgds,

Doug

Glory To Jesus Christ!

Doug, I wish you the best.

I am also a RC as is my Husband and Teens. If my husband and I switch rites and my 13 & 15 year old do not want to, can this happen? i want them to switch, adn understand they can switch back but, I wonder if I should force the issue. or if they automatically change with us. AND IF I am the only parent to switch, same questions. We do insist on remaining Catholic, and none of us wish to return to novus ordo; we have been attending the Old Latin Masss before attending The Ukrainian Byzantine Church. Any info would be helpful.

Thank you all for your answers and again, my prayers and good wishes to you and your family, Doug! Many Happy Years! - Gv.

Any 15-year-old worth his salt will attend Church services, if at all, at whatever Church he cares to attend, and nuts to the rigorists. It is possible, although not as certain, that the 12-year-old will behave the same way. We are not living in the Middle East.

So don't worry about the canonical loose ends. If your children go to Church, please offer your heartfelt prayers of thanksgiving to the Merciful God.

Fr. Serge

The 13 yo will switch with you. The 15 yo must request the change himself, independent of your request. When the 13 yo has his next birthday, he will be able to request a change back to the Latin church. If one parent switches, the two parents decide together which church the children under the age of 14 will move to or stay in. Any children born subsequent to the switch follow the rite of the father, I believe.

I have not followed your posts, but for the sake of any current or future readers who might infer that the Byzantine Liturgy is a way to avoid the novus ordo liturgy, I want to point out that a change of enrollment also entails a change in theology, spirituality, church governance, liturgy, mindset, feast days, obligations, fasts, recognized saints, history, architecture, music, perhaps language, devotions, traditions, vocations, and much more. At the ages of 13 and 15, this shift could easily cause a great amount of resentment on the part of children not on board with it. However, you know your children and their personalities and needs better than we do and certainly have the right to force the rite change in the case of the 13 yo, and the responsibility to raise them in the faith for both of them.

For those who do not plan to pursue vocations in the church, and who still desire the Latin church's or Latin mass' renewal (and would return to the Latin church if this became a reality), then regular attendance and parish registration at another church (such as a Byzantine church) is preferable to a change of enrollment--at least in my opinion.

Dear Wondering,

Thank you for your kind reply. I think the problem here is my poor choice of words, including, "force". I should have said that we wonder if we should even give them this option, as they are minors. We just want them to remain Catholic; my husband and I have not been spiritually satisfied in the novus ordo, and we neither expect nor desire The Uk Byz Church to Latinize. We love it just the way it has always bee: reverent holy and it brings us closer to God. I just wondered if we insist or if they automatically change, if they can change back down the road, and if they should not recieve the option now, because if you ask most kids, they would , as mine have, go where it is shorter and less participation. We want them to have the benefit of the Eastern Church. I hope that clarifies... my fault.

Not all of us who leave the novus ordo want to find a Latin Mass in the Easter Churches; in our case, we came to find what we were missing, and believe we found it.

Thank you.

gv.

Interesting. Then the Tribunals of two different eastern Catholic rites are giving mis-information out and need to learn Canon Law better!

Neil,
Sooooooooooooooooo - where can I look up canon law on this matter? Is there someplace online or book I can read? Thank you and God Bless you. - Gv.

I am sorry, I am asking Johnofthe3barcross. Thank you.

Wondering,
I understand and agree with everything you said here except for the two bolded parts.

Devotions are devotions no matter where they came from and we, as Catholics, are free to chose any devotions that we want.

I know a number of Byzantine Catholics who pray the rosary.

And what do you mean about vocations? Again, as Catholics we are free to follow any percieved call and have it recognized by the Church.

For example, myself.


David, Byzantine Catholic and Carmelite pre-novice (postulant)

David,

I'm afraid your bolds didn't show. I am inferring that you bolded devotions and vocations, though. I am not arguing for or against private devotions, but saying that the church's public devotions will be different. I have no problem with you having a devotion to the rosary, no more than I have a problem with a RC using icons. I wouldn't expect to find an iconostasis in a Latin church or a public recitation of the rosary in an eastern one, though. If the family has a strong devotion to scapulars or to the Immaculate Heart of Mary or to one of the prominent RC apparitions, they also might feel out of place in an EC parish. These are personal points I brought up about one's own experiences with the public church, and therefore would be up to each individual to judge their own circumstances. As I mentioned, it was also not directed at Grapevine, but just a reference for current or future readers who might be considering a change themselves without realizing all that change would entail.

Vocations are different on a number of levels between east and west. First, in the west celibacy is the only way to be a religious, while in the east this is not the case. Some who are strongly convinced of the Latin model would not be happy with this. Also, as you are well aware, there are not religious orders in the east. This is not a problem but a difference, and one which might affect a Latin teenager's desires to switch rites or not. Also, the east has more positions one can be ordained to. Right now I believe all the minor orders are transitional in the Ruthenian church, but this probably isn't the case across all EC churches, nor are we assured that it will be the case 10-15 years from now when her oldest might start considering ordination to the minor orders. Again, these are just differences that one would be facing on a daily basis which could potentially mean very much or very little to each individual faced with such a choice.

We seem to be getting a lot of canon law questions these days. Good on you Neil for providing the good oil.

I can't help but wonder if Wondering is trying to say that the Byzantine Rite is not just another way of having or saying 'Mass' but a much bigger lifestyle as well. Just a thought.