www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Changing Rites with children

Originally posted by Grapevine:
Neil,
Sooooooooooooooooo - where can I look up canon law on this matter? Is there someplace online or book I can read? Thank you and God Bless you. - Gv.

Originally posted by Grapevine:
I am also a RC as is my Husband and Teens. If my husband and I switch rites and my 13 & 15 year old do not want to, can this happen? i want them to switch, adn understand they can switch back but, I wonder if I should force the issue. or if they automatically change with us. AND IF I am the only parent to switch, same questions. We do insist on remaining Catholic, and none of us wish to return to novus ordo; we have been attending the Old Latin Masss before attending The Ukrainian Byzantine Church. Any info would be helpful.

Originally posted by Irish Melkite:
In brief, the process begins when a person believes that his or her spiritual well-being would best be served by fully participating in the life of a sui iuris Church other than the one of which he or she is then a member.

How soon after becoming acquainted with another Church sui iuris can one legitimately claim such discernment?

It varies from individual to individual, but at least one Eastern Catholic jurisdiction has quantified it from their perspective, formally requiring participation by the petitioner in the parish's life for 3 years before approval will be granted. (To the best of my knowledge, no other US Eparchy imposes an absolute time-defined period of involvement prior to granting approval of a petition.) I think it's safe to say that a minimum of one year should/would be expected, with two years being desirable in my opinion.

The petitioner addresses the request to both his/her existing ordinary and the ordinary into whose jurisdiction he/she seeks to transfer, explaining the motivation for seeking transfer.

Petitions espousing traditionalist viewpoints that result in an antagonistic view toward the NO Mass and post-VII reforms are not ordinarily deemed an appropriate basis for granting a Change.

Why? Among other reasons are the fact that the Eastern Church one sees today may not be the one of tomorrow, as the Eastern Churches undergo their own reforms, intended to remove latinizations and restore our own traditions. Will the transplanted Latin still like us when we look less like the Church they romanticized us to be? Or will they be disenchanted and want to move on? And to where? (In most instances, only a single Change of Canonical Enrollment is permitted, although the oft-repeated canard that only a single such Change is permitted in a lifetime is no longer true.)

The extent to which one might encounter disenchantment with one's new liturgical environment will vary. Some Eastern Churches are much further along in achieving a return to their historical liturgical origins than others - so, in those, to use a computer analogy, WYSIWYG, (What You See Is What You Get). In others, what you see may not be what you'll ultimately have.

It is important to us that our Latin sisters and brothers understand that we appreciate interest in us and in our liturgical traditions, but we want to and must be understood and appreciated for ourselves, not as an antidote to what disaffected Latins perceive as wrong in their own Church. The Novus Ordo Mass is neither less authentic nor holy than the Tridentine Mass; each, as a service of worship directed to God, has its own intrinsic holiness when served faithfully and reverently. To the extent that abuses exist within either, they must needs be addressed; but the form is only that - an external; ultimately, worship comes from within oneself, one's heart and soul.

In assessing a petitioner's motivation for a Change, one consideration on the part of the receiving ordinary is commonly the extent to which he perceives that the requestor truly understands and is drawn to the Church, for reasons related to his/her theological development and spiritual well-being.

Originally posted by Pavel Ivanovich:
I can't help but wonder if Wondering is trying to say that the Byzantine Rite is not just another way of having or saying 'Mass' but a much bigger lifestyle as well. Just a thought.

Originally posted by Irish Melkite:
A Change of Canonical Enrollment is a decision that should not be lightly made. For many, it is not only a change of Church, Parish and Rite, but also a whole process of inculturation, particularly given the ethnicity of our parishes. We tend to be a 'family' and 'family' is more than liking the pirohi, the fataya, or the lahmajun at the annual food fair weekend. Anyone intending to make a change should feel certain that they feel comfortable not only with the spirituality, but with the community with whom they will share and explore and develop that spirituality. You are often entering into a community whose ties to one another stretch back generations - sometimes back to a single village in the Levant, Ukraine, or elsewhere. Our parishes are either very welcoming to outsiders who come among us or incredibly closed - there is no in-between. (And we need, so very badly, to be welcoming. 30+ years ago I heard my then newly appointed Exarch, Archbishop Joseph Tawil, of thrice-blessed memory, warn that the seemingly conflicting dangers to our continued existence were (from the outside) assimilation and (from the inside) a ghetto mentality. The truth of that statement has not changed.)

Historically, the formal process for change was enacted as a protection for the Eastern and Oriental Churches, as an effort to reduce the instances of Eastern and Oriental Catholics who were lured from their own liturgical heritage to that of the Latin Church.

As to why a Latin who has gained an appreciation for the East and feels more spiritually comfortable there could - or should - wish to formally Change (versus registering and attending, but never committing beyond that) the fullest sense of belonging to the Ritual Church in which one worships is, for many, reason enough to do so.

Originally posted by Irish Melkite:
One can (and many do) worship for years, even decades, without formally petitioning Change and neither feel nor are made to feel any less a part of their "adopted" parish family.

It is still, however, not the same as knowing, when you see, meet, very possibly speak with the Patriarch or Major-Archbishop or Metropolitan or Eparch of the Church sui iuris which you attend that he is your Patriarch or Major-Archbishop or Metropolitan or Eparch.

When, perhaps looking more than a wee bit different from others in the parish (not a lot of red-haired Syrians or Lebanese ), you are asked by someone from outside "do you come here often?", there is a special feeling in being able to look to them and say, with love, justifiable pride, and without reservation or explanation - "I belong here; I'm a (Melkite, Ruthenian, Syriac, Ukrainian etc.) Catholic".

It may sound sentimentally sloppy but those here who know me should have enough sense of me by now to recognize that (IMO) sentimental sloppiness is not a good descriptor of me. It is 41 years since I came to the Melkite Church and about 39 years now since I was formally translated from the Latin Rite to what was then erroneously termed the Greico-Melkite Rite. I have never looked back or regretted the choice that I made and I remain forever grateful to Archimandrite Lucien Malouf, of blessed memory, who encouraged my pursuit of that change in a day when it was harder to come by, and Richard Cardinal Cushing, also of blessed memory, who enthusiastically urged approval of my petition by Rome in the person of the Apostolic Delegate.

Originally posted by Grapevine:
I am sorry, I am asking Johnofthe3barcross. Thank you.

Originally posted by Grapevine:
I have received this kind of 'cautionary advise' about 'running from the Latin/Novus Ordo' and trying to find these elements in the Eastern Churches. I kindly thank you, and as Wondering said, she does not know my situation, and is not directly applying her advise directly to me. Thank you. I have been 'fence sitting' if you will, for 6 years now, between the Latin and Ukrainian Byzantine, including visits to The Maronite Church, (love the grape leaves, but not drawn to the liturgical or cultural life), and I LOVE The Uk Byz Church JUST THE WAY IT IS. Sometimes, with all due respect, it becomes wearisome to ask a question on some forum, or to have people constantly,"shake their finger', so to speak, at my intentions for wanting to switch rites.

Originally posted by Grapevine:
Neil,

No apology is necessary; I apologize if I seem touchy. You, and everyone here have been most helpful, and I will try to take your advise into account without further immaturity on my part.

God Bless you and please offer a prayer for my family on our journey. My teens will have to go where we go as long as they live with us, and from what I have read here, they probably will not be making a rite change with us. I guess I can only do so much to give them a good religious foundation. God Bless - Gv.