www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Tithing and parish finances

I have two questions to solicit some ideas and suggestions from members on this forum, whose many messages I am enjoying immensely.

I am a member of a Ukrainian Catholic parish which does not have a lot of money. At first, I almost swallowed the line from the lay people on the parish council that we don't have a lot of money because people are poor, but that has since been shown to be self-justifying rubbish: the problem is how little they give, not how little they have! It is a very comfortable middle class parish (with not a few very wealth people there, who are as cheap as the rest of them). Upon examining income tax receipts for 2001, I was scandalized by how little people give. To call them 'stingy' is to understate rather dramatically!

I was always raised to believe (from my Protestant days) that the basic biblical rule, supported by the Church, is that of tithing: 10% of your income goes to God.

Yet if you raise that word with most people, you get a blank stare; if you explain that it means 10% of one's income, they go apoplectic.

So, Question #1: how do you begin to convince people to give more? Has anyone experience in this area? Are there programs, presentations, homilies, which could be given to encourage people (without being unduly manipulative or crass) to give as God wishes them to give?

I ask this for a variety of reasons, not least this one, which forms my second question: secular employment for our priest. Because of the above situation, he is increasingly hard-pressed to support his family. The parish is paying more than $400/month below the absolute minimum which our eparch has said is mandatory, and they are balking at the extra $60/month for a new health care plan which, again, our eparch has required for his clergy. I intend to start raising hell on the parish council, but until I do that (and pray that there is not an armed revolt!) we need to find a job for him. Does anyone have any experience or suggestions in this area as well?

Adam

Hi Adam,

It wonderful that you care so much about your Parish & your Pastor.
Some one needs to talk to these folks on how much their Church/Parish means to them.Sometimes if you show the diference in yearly income if each family gives $1.00 more or $5.00 more a week. Also a weekly publishing of income and expenses helps.
Is there a Priest shortage in your Church or is the next Church far from this one? Those can be motivators. If so and your Parish doesn't meet the Eparchy standards eventually it will work against them. How are the other areas of your Parish's life? Those are good indicators on where your Parish is headed.If not maintaining the Eparchy's standards results in a negative outcome down the road,the Parish Council will be responsible too. Remind them of that.
Maybe the Priests in your Eparchy should ask for a wage contract to insure a decent income.

Nicky's Baba

Suggestions:

#1: Are there any opportunities for paid chaplainships (e.g. hospitals, prisons) in your area. This would be a natural fit.

#2: What other marketable skills does your priest have?

#3: (REALLY radical suggestion) Inform the eparchy of your parish's failure to support the priest according to standard. Suggest to your eparch that the parish lose its pastor until such time as the parishioners step up to the plate and cough up the cash. The pastor could be reassigned to a parish that actually cares (I know _you_ do, but it sounds like you are in a vanishing minority). Then, when the parishioners decide to pay up, your eparch should require some kind of signed contract.

Yeah, radical, but when people are being stupid, I prefer the hammer-and-anvil approach.

Just my $0.02 (Doh!)

Dear Adam,

I have read in several places that Catholics are less likely to give than Protestants. I have also read that working class and middle class people give more (proportionately) than the rich. Also, a lot of Catholics give money to Shrines and missionary organizations that are parts of the Church but not part of the parish, so the concept of tithing is not so clearly established.

The first question is what does the parish need, both in ministry and money? Once you have a wish list you will then have to try influencing people individually.

Maybe the Priest needs to ask for larger contributions. One pastor I remember asked everyone to give one hour's wages to the parish and one hour for other Church charities. This, of course, is not the ten percent, but it did improve the collection. Publishing the amounts on a weekly basis can be helpful, especially if done as a year to year comparison (for example, January 2002 compared to January 2001).

Not all money comes through the collection. What kinds of fundraising activities does the Church have? I'm aware of a Pennsylvania parish that has a regular Pirohy sale that raises as much or more than their Sunday collection.

A major factor is, of course, whether parishioners care about their Church. Contributions can be in time and talent as well as treasure. Getting them more involved in parish activities will give them a greater sense of belonging and a greater likelihood of contributing financially.

One Priest decided to start small, by collecting a million nickels. He started by asking the children to get nickels from their parents. of course, this began educating the next generation about supporting the Parish, but got the parents contributing also. By the way, Father did not turn down other coins or currency. The last I heard, he was up around $30,000.

One nickel at a time.
One day at a time.
One step at a time.
One prayer at a time.
One parishioner at a time.


John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

My 2 cents worth.

I believe some parishioners use tithing as a sort of Veto power. I know in the Roman Catholic Church many people choose not to Tithe because they are upset about Church renovations or some other issue. Really, this is the only power the Laity has in the Church. You might ask if the parishioners are upset about something like not allowing married people into the priesthood or something.

I think people should be encouraged to look in their hearts and give what they can afford to give. Not everyone can give 10% of their income.

In one parish I belonged to, people were asked to give of their talent as well as their treasury. For example, a couple folks who knew what they were doing repaired and refurbished all the woodwork. Others who knew how donated and did painting. This type of contribution saved the parish a bundle.

Another parish I belonged to had a major problem: severely leaking roofs that were eeking through to ceilings and walls. All parishioners were asked to contribute a hefty monthly sum (it was an affluent area), over the course of a year. but not everyone could do that. Those who could not were asked if they had a talent that could be contributed (like painting, when the time came) or to give whatever they could out of the goodness of their hearts. The money came in.

Bottom line: I think many of us may get more out of parishes than we put into them. Sometimes, perhaps, we need to be reminded of that and asked directly to dig a little deeper of our time, talent, and treasury.

God challenges man to tithe, by saying "put me to the test." This I believe is to be found in the book of Malachi. It's the only time God says in effect, "put me to the test."

The 10% isn't about money per se. It's about making our working life, which is where most of us spend our time, a eucharistically linked endeavor, by providing for the church's material needs, which are the gifts offered up to God.

It's about our faith relationship with God: do you TRUST God with your money? If you give him taht 10%, will he REALLY make sure you have food on the table, clothes, etc? I'd say yes. A guy at our church didn't "have" his 10%, but he gave his tithe anyway, forsaking that month's rent. When he got home, the rent money was in an envelope attatched to his car. 10 years later a friend admitted he was passing through town and figured the guy, being young, needed the money.

anastasios

I hate to generalize, but in most cases the money can be found. And it should not be the pastor making appeals, it should be the parish leaders, trustees, etc.

I think most of our parishes have dues in order to set a bare minimum. And, let's face it, for most of our parishes, it is the bequests that keep them going.

But what really works is the personal appeal from fellow parishioners. For example, a challenge -- I'll give $1,000 if you and four others will give $200 each. People like the collective action and feel they are giving twice what they are.

I am also not shy about hitting up friends and colleages who are not parishioners. Alot of Latin Catholics find the needs of our Greek Catholic churches in Eastern Europe very moving. I've had dinner parties at my home with a guest who spoke on our people in Eastern Europe, our tragic history, the takeover and defeat of Communism and our present day efforts to recreate Catholic life and the wallets have opened up big time.

I don't bait and switch. I am very above board that their contribution will be run through our parish (which insures they get their tax deduction) and be part of our parish obilgation to the overseas aid. In my parish, this is enough to cover our entire obligation (and then some), freeing up parish funds that would have otherwise gone there for parish needs.

Then do the follow up. Thank you notes from the pastor (eparch for over $1,000) and some trinket or nesletter six months later, then in a year, ask the same people again. 80% will respond positively. People just want to know their contributions are appreciated and go to a good cause.

Yup, Kurt. That is the way to go.

I think what happens fairly often in this country is that people perceive themselves as the "foundation" of the community or as "supporters".

In the old days, folks without a parish wanted one really badly. They gave money and donated tons of time to build the church building and facilities.

Once the "church" became part of the system, they thought: "OK. It's not 'mine' now. I don't get to decide where the new chapel will go or the colors of the sanctuary paint. So, it's "their responsibility" no longer "mine".

If one wants people to be involved, to "give" (money, time, energy), then the people have to have the sense that the parish is "theirs". If it is now the "bishop's" or the "diocese's" property, then there is less willingness to be involved.

To be the "economist" about this: "the less one has in decision making, the less one is interested in financial support.". It's either "my endeavor" or "their endeavor".

Blessings!

Yes, this topic has got me hot.

Not to contradict my previous post which I offer that this task needs to be more communal, rathe than personal, let me tell you my personal rules for giving to the Church (making no judgement on anyone else):


1. The Eucharist is the Banquet of the Lord. It is the greatest meal you can have. One should give more on Sunday than the most expensive meal bought that week.

2. The Divine Liturgy is the greatest drama ever done. It is the story of salvation. One should give more on Sunday than the price of any Theatre ticket bought that week.

3. The Church offers the best retirement plan in the world -- Heaven. When the time of the year comes that I no longer have to pay the Social Security (FICA) tax out of my paycheck, give that 6.2% to the Church.

Glory to Jesus Christ!!

Glory forever!!

Many of you will remember my last postings before joining the St. Ann's BCC last Easter. I posted under the name Truthseeker for over a year. Then, for some personal reasons, I took a long sabbatical from all forums.

I have been lurking for a while and decided to jump back in when I saw this most provocative topic. It's amazing the reactions you can get from people when you suggest that one's parish actually needs *gasp* MONEY!!! to be run properly.

Fr. Mike used to go up to Williamstown every Saturday to do a Liturgy for a small parish with about 25-30 people left in it. A couple of months ago, it was closed. He commented to us one morning on this during his homily:

"These people do the same thing every week. They put ONE DOLLAR in the basket. Now these people are retired union members who have good pensions and could afford more. And they will spend the rest of their lives wondering why the parish closed down when it is their own fault!!"

Fr. Mike is not known for being shy with his opinions and the truth.

We also had a local Fundy bunch just buy a tract of land to build upon. Price? 1.7 million dollars and they paid in cash!! I remember Fr. Mike coming down to one of our catechism classes and going on for 10 minutes about how the Protestants somehow seem to make their people, many of whom are X Catholics, TITHE!! when then wouldn't do the same when in the Catholic Church. He looked at me, the resident Prot loudmouth in the group (Lord, was I opinionated!!) and asked me why that was. My response:

"Because the preacher gets up there and tells them that this is what God wants and expects them to do."

Do I tithe? Hey, I tithed my money to the assemblies of error and heresy. Now that I have found the truth, how can I do less? I LOVE St. Ann's and my tithe is an expression of that love.

Oh, and as for the new handle to go with the new forum site. I have had the distinct privilege of being allowed to serve the altar when there is a lack of young pups to serve. That, and singing in the choir, are the two best things to happen to me recently.

Cordially in Christ, Lord of the Eucharist,

Brother Ed

I've been travelling for a few days (to Connecticut, where I visited the decidedly UNimpressive "cathedral" of the Ukrainian Catholic Eparchy of Stamford--a disgraceful, scandalous church if ever there was one!) and have returned to such a delightful commonwealth of wisdom on here. Thanks to all of you for your suggestions, all of which will be taken under advisement in my soon-to-be official new role of finance advisor to our parish council!

Adam,

For what it's worth, the stewardship benchmark used in the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese is 2.5% of gross income. This lesser amount is still difficult to meet among an immigrant group accustomed to a state-funded church. However, intermediate goals can sometimes be helpful in a stewardship campaign.

Personally, I just don't understand how anyone can square an active Christian faith with the belief that a parish or can function on just a few dollars. I hope you are suceesful in your effort to secure a living wage for your priest.

Peter