www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Advice in critical situation

Dr. John,

I have spoken with the pastor and he was aware that I would proabably not attend this past Sunday. I will be back� maybe this comming Sunday, maybe not.

I will be at the Dormition Liturgy later this week because no one goes to those but me, the other cantor, and one or two SSPX types.

-uc

Dear UC:

"Maybe . . . maybe not!"

Your present disposition reflects the dilemma your are in: a Solomonic choice between your mother's Church, UGCC, and your father's Church, UO (UOC-MP, UOC-KP, or UAOC?).

It's the Ukrainian Church in microcosm; and I commiserate with you.

Hopefully, all of the contending parties will soon unite under one "Kyivan Patriarchate!"

Amado

Isn't that a Holy Day of Obligation for the Ukrainians?

Dear UC,

Don't wait too long before returning - the longer the wait the more difficult it will be to return - take it from one who knows

Still you will be there on Friday, and Our Mother will welcome you back with open arms on this Her Feast.

God Bless

Amado,

Yes my dad is Orthodox, but my step-father is Jewish. I personally do not see jurisdictions as set in stone. We are all one Kyivan Church with many divided factions. one day, we will stop the petty politics and unite. The Faith is the same for all of the Kyivan churches. Some of it has been Latinized, some of it (dare I say) Russified, some of it lost, some of it watered down. It's a matter of time and politics and re-adjustment to the fulness of how the Kyivan Faith and Church is suppost to be lived.

Lemko Rusyn,
Yes it is a Holy Day of Obligation. Two things: our parishioners come from Los Angeles, Desert Hot Srpings, Tijuana Mexico, and all over Southern California. Most parishioers drive over 25 minutes to get to church so for most older and professional people, they can only do so much.

The second thing is that it is not a Ukrainian Saint's day or Ukr. Independence Day or Taras Shevchenko day so you know, if it's not one of those, why is it obligatory :p

Our Lady's Slave,

No worries. As I said earlier, quoting the words of my future governor, "I'll be back."

-uc

Dear UC,

I think I understand a bit of what you are going through.

I've had it done to me before in a similar manner. It is always upsetting when our "patriotic" laity decide to make a public demonstration in church in defence of Ukrainian national security.

Where would Ukraine and its people be without them?

If they were back in Ukraine, the country would never have been invaded and taken over!

Or else, the only reason they left there to come here was because, as one erstwhile person told me, "they ran out of ammunition!"

You are hurt because this, how shall I say, IDIOT presumed to question your religious/cultural loyalties.

(Like what I did over the issue of ROCOR).

He was at fault, not you. And we cannot expect him to change his views - critical, courteous thinking is a standard too high for him to attain(could he be related to me do you think?)

There is a wonderful Ukrainian saying that applies to that, how shall I say, XAM that goes like this: "Such a bent-over person only the grave will straighten."

And if he is such a bleeding heart Ukie, why didn't he start yelling at the fact that your parish already had a non-Ukie Priest at the Altar?

He allowed that?

Shame on him! A real, how shall I say, "XPYHb!"

If I haven't made you feel at least a little bit better by now, sorry, I don't know what else to say.

And do take Lemko's advice as he urges you to return to church despite this upset!

Alex

UC:

Glory be to Jesus christ! Glory be to Him forever and ever!!

Just wanted to see how you were doing. Have had you in my prayers. Don't let go of the Faith because of one man and as I have said here before--let no one disturb the peace that Christ gives you from above (the peace of soul that the world cannot understand nor can it attain). Your gift you offer to Him, not to someone who cannot understand what it is supposed to be used for.

In Christ,

BOB

Alex,

My first cousin married a XAM- that is really his last name! We do have fun witht hat one.

I think it all happened because there are other choir members he could have screamed at but I think I was picked out because I am young; he wouldn't dare yell at the other starosty.

The logic is messed up because when he was screaming at me, he was referencing the fact I am leading the singing, but at the Pravoslavniy picnic he denied he knew i was leading as diak. It totally beats me.

I will probably attend this next Sunday. I need my church as much as it needs me.

funny thing is, for the longest time, I was the only Altar Server, and he would get on my case for doing "Russian bows" and such. In fact, one time during the Little Enterance one time, he grabbed my arm and said "You crossed your self wrong, everything you have done today so far is wrong and I will show you later the way it should be."

He showed me when to kneel and ring the bells for Sanctfication during the Mass and how to hold the priest's garment out. He also told me that using the Teplota (warm water) was Orthodox let alone Russian and needs to stop.

I actually quit serving a few years back because he was too much and I was more interested in music anyways. We now have a subdeacon that covers for me so that I can sing full time.

Bob,
Thank you for your prayers and personal messages I have recieved. It is greatyly appreciated and needed.

Failed Altar Server and Struggling Diak,
-uc

I think you should change your name to Job.

Blessings!

>>>>I will probably attend this next Sunday. I need my church as much as it needs me.<<<

Good for you, UC! Go back. He's just one old man.
Sam

AMDG
Dear UC,
Just to share an anecdote (I hope people won't mind the Western Stuff), when I was a kid serving the Tridentine Mass, there was a Master who was absolutely out of control. He would wave his arms at the other servers (we called him the Windmill), give directions out loud in a silent Church, and make a fool out of everybody especially (poor guy) himself. He destroyed the ambiance of the Liturgy so badly that he was banned by the priests from serving (he didn't really need to be serving anyway, since he was in his 40s at the time).
I feel your pain --just don't consider yourself a failure--it's all for the Lord "who giveth joy to my youth." I agree with Doctor John about the Job thing.

In the Merciful Hearts,
LatinTrad

Dear UC:
I think the old guy caught everyone off guard, and so no one came to your defense.

I bet if he tries it again one of the other parishaners will say something.
denise

UC,

I really hope the problem you encountered has been solved. Sometimes it's just a matter of coming to understand how a person thinks, so that you will be better prepared to deal with them in the future. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to agree with them. You need not even be offended by their behavior! If it's during the Liturgy, the best thing to do is to ignore them altogether, because you are there to help lead the congregation in worship, and are too busy with the service itself. Consider what is truly important at that time. That's what you tried to do.

After the service, you might talk it over with your priest, to see if he wants you to do anything differently. Under the circumstances, he's likely to thank you for your patience and respect for the service itself you are rendering for the parish.

Much of my service in our parish is volunteering with our beloved teens, so it pains me to think that someone would not realize that a teen who loves Our Lord through cantoring is a great treasure. For myself, I pray from time to time that I will not be a stumbling block to the young, since it would be better to wear a millstone necklace and drown in the sea, if I recall Our Lord's words.

For that reason, we should pray that the disruptor will not go into eternal damnation, since that may be the path upon which he has embarked.

Dear UC,

Well, I've considered everything you've said about that man from as Christian a point of view as I can.

He is, how shall I say, a real asshole, a "dupa volova!"

There is no such thing as a "Russian bow!" Russians were always "unbowed" - they had an empire!

The true "Ukrainian bow" is to lie prone on the floor until somebody else who isn't Ukrainian tells you to get up . . .

Just goes to show you how much this idiot really knows.

Do you have his home address?

Alex