www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization becomming Byzantine Catholic

hello.....I am Roman Catholic and currently interested in becomming Ukrainian(Byzantine) Catholic. i am Catholic first and foremost, but i really like the Byzantine way, not that i dont like Latin way, but i love the style of the east and i think i'd be a great fit in the Byzantine Rite. i have many questions as far as the transition though. is the transition difficult to make ? would i have to take classes to learn some of the eastern terms? and i was told to become Byzantine Rite, i'd have to write my Latin Bishop and tell him , and as well as the Metropolitan. and what about the calender system? do byzantine catholics follow gregorian or julian? i am just not sure of a few things, hopefully someone can help, thanks.

Welcome, Matthew, to The Byzantine Forum!

There are some wonderful participants who can provide a good orientation to our Church. If you are interested in becoming Byzantine Catholic I�d recommend just going to a parish near you and plunging yourself deep into the life of that parish. It will take a year or two before you can fully discern if this is God�s calling to you (in fact, your pastor will probably expect you to be an active parishioner for at least a year before approving a formal transfer of membership from the Latin to Byzantine Church).

Again, welcome!

Admin

Hi Matthew:

The first thing you have to do to *officially* become a Byzantine Catholic is to *actually* be one.

By this I mean that you should enroll yourself into a Byzantine parish and actively participate in its spiritual and pastoral life.

Being a Byzantine is more than just liturgical taste. There is a very rich spiritual heritage in the Byzantine Church and before requesting a canonical transfer, you should know this heritage well and, most of all, make it your own.

If and when you think you're ready to request this transfer (which I wouldn't recommend until at least a couple of years attending primarily to the Byzantine parish), the the process is to ask your Byzantine pastor for his approval and write to both your Byzantine and Latin Ordinaries a letter expressing your request and the reasons why you want to transfer.

In theory only the Pope can grant this transfer, but in "the West", this is implicitly conceded if both Ordinaries agree.

A canonical transfer is not always required, though. You'll only need it if you want to receive Holy Orders in the Byzantine Church or if you want your children to be Baptized into the Byzantine Church (if you remain canonically a Latin, your children can be Baptized in your Byzantine parish using the Byzantine ritual, but they would still be canonically Latins).

As far as I know, all Byzantine Catholics use the Gregorian Calendar and celebrate Easter with the rest of the Catholics, but then again, I might be wrong.

Shalom,
Memo.

Some parishes in the Ukrainian Catholic juristictions still use the Julian calendar. Here in North America they are in the minority.

I am pretty sure that our church in Ukraine uses the Julian calendar, as well as our parishes in Western Europe. (Someone let me know if I'm wrong.)

I am not 100% sure about other Byzantine Catholic groups here in the USA, but I think most use the Gregorian calendar.

Welcome Matthew, hopefully we can be helpful guides in your journey!

With Best Wishes,
Stefan-Ivan

thank you for your replies, they are greatly appreciated. there is only one eastern rite catholic parish in my state, and it is Ukrainian Catholic, and its not far at all. ive attended the divine liturgy 3 times there, twice in ukrainian, and once in english(this past sunday) when i went to the divine liturgy before, and as beautiful as it was, i couldnt follow along that well. but last sunday i went, cuz they recently added a divine liturgy schedule in english, and i follow along in the book, and it was really great. so maybe sometime in the next months ill join their parish, and learn bit by bit.

but as for the calender, for example, on the parish bulletin, on the cover it showed an icon of saint james, for october 23rd(his feast day in the east i suppose) and said it was the 23rd sunday after pentecost, but the western calender says its the 29th sunday after pentecost and saint james feastday is in july. so i guess my parish is following julian then right ?

Dear Matthew, Slava Isusu Christu! Glory to Jesus Christ!

The New Calendar (Gregorian) commemoration is on October 23rd. The old calendar (Julian) commemoration is on November 5th. Also the Julian calendar reckoning would have been the 17th Sunday after Pentecost (Tone 8) just past and the 18th coming up (Tone 1) this Sunday. Looks like yours is a new calendar parish.

With regards to the calendar issue, the above post is correct in that the Ukrainian Catholic Church is the only Eastern Catholic church sui iuris with Old Calendar parishes in the US and Canada.

May the Holy Spirit abide in you and guide your discernment.

Matthew,
Glory to Jesus Christ!
You are starting on a magnificent journey. I agree with those who have said you should immerse yourself in the liturgical and social life of the parish for a year or two. During this time, you would be able to receive all mysteries (sacraments) and fully participate and support the parish with other members.
Ask to the calendar. The Latin Church celebrates the 29th Sunday of Ordinary Time, while Eastern Catholic Churches celebrate the 23rd Sunday After Pentecost. The Ordinary Time consists of the weeks from the Baptism of the Lord until the beginning of Lent, and then resumes counting following Pentecost. So Ordinary Time will never "line up" with weeks following Pentecost.
From my experience, Eastern Catholic Churches and the Latin Church in the United States follow the same civil calendar. Christmas, Easter, and Pentecost are celebrated the same. The local parish you attend normally has liturgical calendars available for the people, although by this time of year you might have to wait until January. In any event, pay attention to the bulletin regarding liturgical celebrations.
Hope this helps,
Deacon El

Hi, All!
I have been going to a Byzantine Church for several weeks, (and tonight, in an hour, I am going to the "Feast of the Entrance of the Mother of God").(Last week I got the courage to take Communion! LOL!)

When I found this board, I would read and learn, and I am not a good post maker, but I HAVE to ask something that I already may have recieved the answer from, by reading this board, but maybe not.
If anything, I am asking for clarification to this:
"A canonical transfer is not always required, though. You'll only need it if you want to receive Holy Orders in the Byzantine Church or if you want your children to be Baptized into the Byzantine Church (if you remain canonically a Latin, your children can be Baptized in your Byzantine parish using the Byzantine ritual, but they would still be canonically Latins)."

This was said a few posts up. When I read this I was happy but confused. Here's the deal: I am a fallen away RC Catholic. My son was never able to be baptised. Everytime, EVERYTIME, the prospective Godparents would be turned down, due to non support of the church, and after a while, I gave up.
Eventually, I stopped going, although for years I was very devout.
Well, guess what, time goes fast, and now my son is 8, and for a thousand reasons, I have fallin in love with the Byzatine Church, and he has too.I may change over, I may not.
The thing is, I do not undertstand what I pasted here, above, and have to ask: If I were to stay RC, the BC church would accept my son into the BC church,using the BC rituals, but he would still be " canonically Latin" ...why?How? Hope anyone can shed some light on my confusion.
Ok, we are off to Church, I will check back later.
Thanks.
Marie

Option B :

STEP 1. Go to the local ROCOR parish, become involved and tell them you want to be received, they'll sure receive you through bapstism and chrismation.

STEP 2. If after some moths or years you don't feel happy there, go to the Byzantine Ukrainian parish and tell your pastor you wish to be received in communion with Rome.

STEP 3. give them the documents as a baptized Russian orthodox and you'll automatically become part of the Eastern Catholic Church.

Marie asked: The thing is, I do not understand what I pasted here, above, and have to ask: If I were to stay RC, the BC church would accept my son into the BC church, using the BC rituals, but he would still be " canonically Latin" ...why? How? Hope anyone can shed some light on my confusion.

Marie,

Children are automatically enrolled in the Church of their parents. If the parents belong to different Catholic Churches at the time of Baptism then the parents are allowed to designate the Church they wish the child to be enrolled in. [It�s actually a bit more complicated but this is the one sentence version.] The rules are really just to keep good order in the Church (think of the quandary of a military family with 6 children living in five different places and having the children baptized in 6 different Catholic Churches (Roman, Byzantine, Maronite, Chaldean, etc.)).

If your son is 8 years old and not baptized it is almost certain that the pastor would provide some special preparation before administering the Sacramental Mysteries of Baptism, Chrismation and Holy Eucharist to him. If it is your desire to make a formal change of Church from the Latin to the Byzantine talk with your pastor. Maybe you and your son can take your formation together! There is no need for you to make a formal change to have your son baptized but the pastor would expect that you had a track record of being an active and faithful parishioner.

Might I also suggest that when choosing godparents for your son that you make sure that they are practicing Catholics? Keep in mind that the main role of a godparent is to make sure that his or her godchild is properly raised in the faith. Someone already active in the Church is far more likely to assume this role (if needed) than someone who is not active in the Church.

Prayers and best wishes! Make sure to talk with your pastor. He is the best source for information on your actual situation.

Admin

--

PS: Remie�s post is hilarious! But don�t take it seriously. A Catholic who joins ROCOR and accepts Baptism there is denying the efficacy of his Catholic Baptism.

Dear Admin,
"There is no need for you to make a formal change to have your son baptized but the pastor would expect that you had a track record of being an active and faithful parishioner."


Let me see if I have this right:
I am free to join the BC church, perhaps after about 3 months of going there, BUT I do not have to officaly change from RC to BC, unless I want to, and this would involve writing letters, and going to the BC church at least a year. (this is my understanding).True of false?

My son, who has never been baptised RC CAN be baptised in the BC church, if I am a member of the church, but I do not have to change to BZ myself? True or false?

I really am confused..I have recieved a few private messages saying, Yes, and saying, no.

Oh, and admin, yes, my friends who were willing to be godparents, in the RC church for my boy, recieved letters of denial, for not being Catholics in good standing, one priest elaborated on this in his letter to my friend, saying, that she did not support the church, so they had no way of knowing if she even went to mass at all.
I tried, as I said, a few times, but everyone was turned down for the same basic reason. I just did not know a "good catholic", and recieved no help from my own parish in the matter. When my son was 2, I gave up.

Hopefully, if I am to make the BC church my home, I will be able to make the friends I would need, right there, in the parish, who would indeed be in good standing.

Ok, here's a curve ball: If after a year or two, I recieved permission to change over, and BOTH my son and myslef needed sponsors, how many would we need? Just one for each of us?

Thanks.
Ps. The BC church I am going to, is now almost 90 years old, It is a part of the Eparchy of Passaic, and the Priest, I see, is on about 4 listings, on that web site. A pretty popular guy!

LOL, yes, I had to read Remie's post twice, before I realized he was joking!
But I must say, I have recieved letters from GO's and OCA's, saying..."stop, just come to us!"
Well, I will not leave my communion with Rome, plus...they don't even have pews, do they??
Marie

Marie,

Please understand that my comments are general in nature. You would need to discuss these issues with your pastor for official guidance.

Let me see if I have this right:
I am free to join the BC church, perhaps after about 3 months of going there, BUT I do not have to officially change from RC to BC, unless I want to, and this would involve writing letters, and going to the BC church at least a year. (this is my understanding).True of false?

True - but a bit of clarification is needed.

Any Catholic who is a member of any of the Catholic Churches (Roman, Byzantine, etc.) may register in a parish of any other Catholic Church (Chaldean, Maronite, etc.) and worship in that parish as long as he or she chooses (assuming that the person desiring to register is a Catholic in good standing or active taking steps to become one). There are no specified time periods. You do not need to make a formal change of enrollment from one Church to another. [The pastor obviously does have discretion in who he allows to register but that's another discussion.]

To make a formal change of Church (from Latin to Byzantine or Byzantine to Chaldean) the person seeking to make the change needs only to obtain the blessing (permission) of his or her pastor and then complete the appropriate paperwork (essentially a request that is approved by the original bishop and the new bishop since each Church has its own ecclesiastical structure). There are no specified waiting times but most pastors do ask that the person take a year or two to discern that this is God's call for them.

If you do not make a formal change you can receive the Sacramental Mysteries of Confession, Eucharist and Anointing in the new Church. Since you would be technically a member of the original Church you are subject to her canons regarding marriage, religious life (possible ordination for a man) and baptism of children. If you chose to baptize your children in the new Church it can be done but since you are subject to the Latin Church's rules you would need to obtain permission from the Latin Church).

My son, who has never been baptized RC CAN be baptized in the BC church, if I am a member of the church, but I do not have to change to BZ myself? True or false?

True.

Assuming, of course, that your child has not been baptized previously in a Catholic Church or another Church of which we recognize baptism as valid and that the directives of any Particular Law are followed.

The pastor may rightly question your intentions since it is logical that those desiring to raise their children as Byzantine Catholics would also become Byzantine Catholic themselves. [i.e., he will want to make sure that you are well-intentioned.]

The older laws stated that in this case your son would be technically a Roman Catholic, even if baptized in the Byzantine Church. The new laws state that you may choose the Church of your son (with an assumption that you will actually raise him in the Church).

Oh, and admin, yes, my friends who were willing to be godparents, in the RC church for my boy, received letters of denial, for not being Catholics in good standing, one priest elaborated on this in his letter to my friend, saying, that she did not support the church, so they had no way of knowing if she even went to mass at all. I tried, as I said, a few times, but everyone was turned down for the same basic reason. I just did not know a "good catholic", and received no help from my own parish in the matter. When my son was 2, I gave up.

Sounds as if your friends were either not regular churchgoers or had little involvement in their parish. A pastor is generally pretty aware of who is an active member and who is not. The role of godparent is an important one as the godparent promises to make sure the child is raise in the faith if the parents are not around (death, divorce, single-parent, etc.). I'm glad that you will be making friends in your new Byzantine parish.

OK, here's a curve ball: If after a year or two, I received permission to change over, and BOTH my son and myself needed sponsors, how many would we need? Just one for each of us?

Since you are already baptized you do not need a sponsor.

Once you are comfortable in your new parish ask the priest to help you find a spiritual director (who may or may not be your confessor). It could be your parish priest, another priest or he may introduce you off with a group of grandmothers.

Admin

Dear Sister Marie, welcome to our little Byzantine on-line parish, which includes all of our Eastern sisters and brothers. I'm so glad that you found us!!!

The absolute root of our faith is that deep inner voice that tells us that Christ's teaching and Gospel is the truth. Where-ever we may be in our lives from past actions and "history", the one absolute truth is that we must be pilgrims going towards God. And if the Byzantine community provides you with the graces that you need to be a better follower of Christ, then that is the path that you should follow.

Sometimes, there are questions of canon law and sacraments; that's all well and good. But the true yardstick is the question of your finding a community that loves you and that both lives and worships in a way that speaks to your soul. If the Byzantine church shakes you from the depths of your soul, then perhaps you have found a spiritual home, a home that will both support and challenge you in loving God and serving your neighbor.

In that case, I would follow the recommendations of the above posters: go to the parish, come to know the priest and the people, participate as best you can in the liturgical and social life of the community and allow people the privilege of geting to know you. In this way, you will benefit as will the parish community.

A major difference between the Western and Eastern communities in the U.S. is the fact that Byzantine communities still have the old-fashioned view that the parish is a family of folks who both love and care for each other. Many Western (Roman Catholic) communities still cherish this virtue, but because they are oftentimes VERY large, the family aspect gets lost. We (unfortunately) don't have this problem. We're oftentimes very tiny.

As for the canon law stuff: let it go for now. Become a member of the parish community and give it your all. As you become an integral part of the Byzantine community, and you are both known and loved by your fellow parishoners, your priest can cut through the red tape and "regularize" any silly canonical stuff.

Rules are there to keep order in the Church. But, as any priest or bishop worth his salt will tell you: SALVATION is the ultimate goal. And whatever you do (and where-ever you do it), if it is for the good of your soul and that of your child, a way will be found to make sure that the laws etc. are taken care of.

I understand that your journey has been a difficult one - moving from one spiritual place to another. Rest assured: if your soul is best supported in the Byzantine community, then the powers of hell can't do a thing about it and you are at home with us. And we'll fight tooth and nail to help you on your pilgrimage.

Thank you for both searching for us and also for having the courage to make a post. You are wonderful. And it is OUR privilege to have you among us as a friend.

And if you are in need of whatever, then just ask.

Blessings!

Dr John,

Thanks for that - I thought us Latins were also a part of this wonderful cyber Parish.

welcome to our little Byzantine on-line parish, which includes all of our Eastern sisters and brothers. I'm so glad that you found us!!!

Oh boy - I think I'll go away !
Angela