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I often wonder if these modern architects ever worship in the Churches they design - or think about the climatic conditions to which they are subjected.

Here some very respected architects have designed some very nice looking buildings [ Churches and a Seminary] which did actually work but the designs were very problematical and they have now had to be pulled down. The problem was , believe it or not - they did not keep out the rain - and in Scotland , as you all know we do have a little of it from time to time .

Recently some very nice Churches have been built which so far seem to be still standing - very modern - some may not like them but they do have an atmosphere of peace and tranquillity and one can pray there. They seem to have tried to design something which is intended for use mainly as a Church - OK as Roman Church with all that means but it 'feels' right and the local people seem to like it. Most of them are fairly small - seating about 2-300 folk and therefore they are well filled - it must help the priest when he is not preaching to a half empty Church !

It seems to me that most people in the Forum have fallen pray to the Moderist thinking. I realize that the theology of the Church Architecture is fastely becoming a lost art. It is sad that Catholic Colleges no longer offer courses on Church Architecture.

The Church (Temple) is not a building for the People - Contrary to Popular belief! It is a Building to House God. Now, how do you think a building to house God should be constructed? If we can spend $40 Million on a football stadium then why can't we spend just as much money if not more on the House of God!

When Churches cease to be Churches than parishoners start treating them like Gyms and Auditoriums. Ever wonder why people talk and Crack up in Roman Catholic Churches before Mass? I have NEVER been to a Modern Roman Catholic Church (I have been to many) were the People did not socialize in the Church right before Mass.

When one goes into a Church one should be looking into Heaven not the New Orleans Super Dome! Build a Chruch like an auditorium and people will treat it as such.

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: aRomanCatholicGuy ]

Ahh. Clearly a byzantinization. They are taking things from our patrimony.

K.

Kurt, that was terribly funny.

>>>The Church (Temple) is not a building for the People - Contrary to Popular belief! It is a Building to House God. Now, how do you think a building to house God should be constructed? If >>>we can spend $40 Million on a football stadium then why can't we spend just as much money if not more on the House of God!

When Churches cease to be Churches than parishoners start treating them like Gyms and Auditoriums. Ever wonder why people talk and Crack up in Roman Catholic Churches before Mass? I have NEVER been to a Modern Roman Catholic Church (I have been to many) were the People did not socialize in the Church right before Mass<<<

Great points. Churches are now being built for our enjoyment and entertainment, I fear. Round churches so that everybody can see, and be distracted by, everybody else. The tabernacle being moved to an undisclosed location, when it should be prominently displayed on the altar. Statues and icons almost non-existent. I've been in some churches where I felt I just walked into a doctor's office. I think these new church designs are just one of the symptoms of the deeper problems plaguing the Church.

Columcille

[ 02-05-2002: Message edited by: Columcille ]

Kurt, that was terribly funny.

As funny as a piece of candy with a razor blade in it.

http://oldworldrus.com

I agree with Serge! This is NOT a funny subject! The Church has REAL DEEP problems! I blame the Bishops! The Bishops today were the Hippie priest of the 60's and 70's. I really can't wait to these Bishops leave. I know of only ONE Bishop in the RCC that I can really relate too. That is Arch Bishop Libscomb of Mobile. Libsocmb is a Good Bishop. He pressed forward with reforms of Church in the latest US council of Bishops.

In his Diocess most of the Tabernacles are behind the Altars now. They use to have that stupid idea of moving it away from the Altar. Now they move it back! :-)

There is HOPE!

[ 02-05-2002: Message edited by: aRomanCatholic@Work ]

Please, hold on gentleman. I do not disagree with the majority (if not all) of the points being made regarding legitimate concerns regarding modernism and the problems all-too-often associated with modern RC church architecture.

I found Kurt's comments to bring some levity to the discussion, even though I disagree with other comments he's made in this thread. Perhaps it wasn't intended that way; but, it's the way I read it.

Personally, I hadn't participated through posting on this particular thread till my poorly received comment for two reasons:

1. I agreed with the points being made in favor of more traditional/conducive-to-pious-and-less-distracted-worship architecture and saw no reason to reiterate what everyone on that side of the aisle had been stating.

2. This thread wandered from the initial question regarding whether "New Age/Liberal methodology" will make it's way into the Byzantine Church.

I apologize if any of you misinterpreted my remarks as support for modern architecture that contributes to New Age/Liberal theologies and a general lack of reverence for our Lord. Will you please forgive me if I have offended you?

Kelly,

Will you please forgive me if I have offended you?


You didn't.

http://oldworldrus.com

Kelly,

I found it to be funny, too!

Thanks,Kurt.

Steve
JOY!

Dear Friends,

Personally, I've never gone in for western church architecture and I've always considered the reason for this being that my taste is rather "Byzantine."

I've never liked the sombre and even depressing Gothic spires that seem to struggle to make their way to heaven.

For me, the Byzantine Church of light and beauty celebrating the God of both is what places me in heaven amongst the Angels and the Saints to glorify God in the Holy Trinity.

So is the Church for the People? Or is it for God?

For the East, it is both. It is where God meets His people and where we gaze upon the Face of God in His glory, majesty and beauty.

The way I see it . . .

Have a great evening, Friends in Christ!

Alex

Dear Friends,
Christ is among us!
Sonny is right as far as the role of the Church is concerned in ministering to the faithful and the world. So my comments are NOT intended to reflect on the pastoral ministry of St. Mary Roman Catholic Church on Florida's "Space Coast."

I do not appreciate the architecture used for their buildings. I wonder what planet they were intended to land on! I do not claim to be an expert on Latin American and Caribean Architecture, but I have never seen Churches in these countries built in this style.

The Maronite Church in Austin, TX appears to be great blend of ancient design with modern technology and material. As an Structural Engineer as well as a priest, I am amazed at what passes for Church Architecture generally in the United States. Two Roman Catholic parish mear one of my parishes are adding to their "modern Style" buuildings. In neighborhoods filled with beautiful colonial style homes, these building stand out as the ugliest things in their neighborhoods. And now the neighbors are even more upset, because they will be faced with an even larger ugly down the street.

As my parish is looking towards building a larger permanent Church, we are looking to Slva Byzantine Churches for inspiration. Now if we can only decide between Pskov and Novogorod styles. Any suggests.
Father Vladimir

Bless Father Vladimir!

That is a tough decision to make: Pskov or Novhorod. I like the Novhordian architecture, because of the high verticle space (I am german and am quite fond of tall Ecclesiastical structures). How ever, a building with a lot of verticality can be quite expensive to build, maintain, ad heat and cool. Also, the wall decorations can get a little hard to see. THe Pskov architeture can be more accomodating to modern amenities, has lots of wall space, and no pillars to obstruct anyone's view. Also I think the three part (narthex-nave-apse) is important, and should not be lost (narthexes are typically not a part of Novhordian churches).

The church building is clearly intended to be the place where the community worships and prays. No question. So, whatever enhances the prayer (collective and personal) of the congregants should be encouraged and enhanced.

In the 'old countries', where most of the people lived in smaller villages, there was ample opportunity to meet and greet one's fellow community members. However, in many of our Byzantine parishes in the U.S., people come from all over, oftentimes driving for more than a half hour (and oftentimes much longer!) to get to church.

So, I think it's OK when a senior member of the parish, after the liturgy, pushes through the group to grasp a friend's hand, exchange a hug, and ask for the welfare of the family. Perhaps it's a Byzantine or ethnic quirk, but I think it's a sign that we are a community, not just a "parish". There is one lady who regularly seeks me out to ask for my Mother's well-being. (She sends cards to her -- even though they've never met.) My eyes kinda fill up with tears when my fellow parishoners come to talk with me and offer their support: "Bring your Mom to dinner"; "Can I visit her?", "How are you doing? Is there anything I can do to help you?". I am just overcome by the kindness of my Ruthenian friends. Warmer, kinder people do not exist.

As for the church architecture, our parish is kind of 'plain'. The building was built by the people themselves under the guidance of an architect and engineer. Every brick was placed by one of our people. When I enter the building, I always think of the 'founders and benefactors' and I know that I stand upon their handiwork. Literally. (Check out: epiphanyofourlord.org)

We've raised well over a million dollars to build a new edifice. While I think a new church would be wonderful, I just don't want to dump the 'old stuff'; I have a strong emotional attachment to both the church building and the people. I'm sure that the new building would be more "European" or 'traditional' than our current edifice, but the current building came from the hard-working sacrifice of the people I love. And to me, that's waaaaaay more important than any architecture.

Blessings!

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Um, will someone explain the difference between the Novgorod and Pskov styles of church buildings? With pictures too, if that's not too much trouble!

Yours in Domino,

Edward