www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Pope set to return to traditional liturgy

Pope set to return to traditional liturgy:-
VATICAN CITY | June 19, 2005 5:11:27 AM IST


Pope Benedict XVI wants to restore the traditional ceremonial Mass in St. Peter's Basilica, with Latin instead of the vernacular and Gregorian chants.

Vatican expert Sandro Magister reported in his weekly newsletter Saturday that the pope is expected to replace Archbishop Pietro Marini, his predecessor Pope John Paul II's master of liturgical ceremonies.

Whoever follows Marini will have orders to restore the traditional style and choreography of papal ceremonies in St. Peter's.

Out will go the international Masses so dear to Pope John Paul II's heart, with such innovations as Latin American and African rhythms and even dancing, multi-lingual readings and children in national costumes bringing gifts to the altar.

Pope Benedict wants to return to the Sistine Chapel choirs singing Gregorian chant and the church music of such composers as Claudio Monteverdi from the 17th century. He also wants to revive the Latin Mass.

Archbishop Marini always planned the ceremonies with television in mind, Magister said, and that emphasis will remain. A decade ago the Vatican set up a system for transmitting papal ceremonies world wide via multiple satellites.
(UPI)

Very intersting indeed! The only questions I have is how will this affect the rest of the church and does this mean a return (at least in those services) to a Tridentine Mass?? Will they be expected to go back to the latin as well? I am new to the church (2yrs) and I have never seen a Latin mass (though I have always wanted to). Perhapse it will make it OK to have more latin masses at churches instead of only limiting our services to the NO and seemingly making the latin mass extinct.

In His Name,
Stephen

Stephen,

It is hard to imagine all Latin or even a majority of Latin masses. Not only is that impractical but I should think it is counterproductive. I certaily hope that the Gregorian Chant becomes standard in all RC Churches. A return to reverence and to the sacred seems much needed. But that is mostly their business not ours.

Dan L

I don't think there will ever be a return to
all Latin or even a majority of Latin Masses.
But it would be wonderful if those of us who
want a Traditional Latin Mass would no longer
be ostracized by the American Bishops and be
able to attend one without having to drive
100+ miles to find one.

Dear Stephen�

There is an old Yankee saying "Believe half of what you hear and less of what you read�.

Journalism today is a competition - and so far too much �truth� comes from anonymous sources � looking to �break� that next sensational news story - with no way to verify what they are telling you.

Knowing that the Latin Mass has still been used all along in St. Peters Basilica as one of the types of Masses celebrated in this international meeting place (keep in mind that only special Masses make it to TV) and knowing that the Latin Mass is still practiced in the Catholic church and has a respected place � this news item tasted funny so I researched it.

If ten men tell a joke down a line � by the time it gets to the end - it no longer resembles the joke that began it.

Sandro Magister � is a journalist � a self styled �Vatican expert� - an Italian reporter who covers the Vatican. In other words he sells his opinions to secular news services. He has no official connection with the Vatican. His own newsletter is subscription � he sells it.

The origin of this story appeared in his own newsletter � as his own speculation about how things will shape up under the new Pope. In other words � Sandro Magister � is speculating that the new Pope may want to �to restore the traditional ceremonial Mass in St. Peter's Basilica�. What may constitute �traditional ceremonies� is something that Sandro�s has in his own mind and Sandro has been deemed a fundamentalist by some. He sells his column to the New York Times among other news papers � he prints whatever he think he can sell.

Such international Masses as celebrated on special occasions � where you saw Pope John Paul on TV � are not the every day thing at St. Peter�s Basilica. Masses there on a daily basis are in Italian and English (the local language and the international language). But Latin Mass is no stranger there � the acoustics are wonderful for Gregorian chats. You will find Mass there in French, English, Polish, German, etc.. etc.. depending upon what type of attendance is scheduled through out the day. This is not an ordinary church.

Think BIG � think international. Think Pentecost when the gospel was spoken to everyone in their own language so they could understand its message. With many side altars you will sometimes find several masses being celebrated - and can walk around and hear several language being used for each. Think - international. I am told this is quite an expereince to hear the gospel being sopken in so many languages.

There are a few places where you can get accurate Catholic news � one is go to the Vatican and sign up with their weekly news service� it comes in your email about once a week. It reports what the pope makes public.

http://www.catholicnews.com/
(fairly good but not always accurate)

http://212.77.1.245/news_services/or/index.htm
L�Osservatore Romano - always accurate � subscription

http://212.77.1.245/news_services/press/index.htm
Holy See Press Office

http://212.77.1.245/news_services/press/vis/documents/ns_vis_doc_form_vis_en.html#start
A free Vatican Information service from the Vatican

http://www.zenit.org/english/
Zenit � high accuracy

Want Catholic news? The best method is to go to the Catholic Church and get it.

-ray

The goal of the Catholic church is to have people who do not understand Latin - understand the mass and the gospel. So this pastorial need is a real need and a responsibility. If you gather enough people who want to hear a Latin mass - and find a priest who wants to say a latin mass - the bishop will give his approval.

Mel Gibson erected his own chapel at his home - and permission for the Latin mass has been given.

We need more priests - there are far too few - and so they must be streached to the max for pastorial needs. You are not 'ostracized' they just do not have the man power to take care of your particulalr desire and short change others.

Have you - yourself - ever contacted your archdiocese office and asked where you might find a local Lain mass? They are pretty helpful.

-ray

Around 20 years ago, in an interview that was later published as a book called "Report on the Faith" then Cardinal Ratzinger said that it was necessary to restore certain traditional aspects in the Novus Ordo Mass, including the use of Latin.

When asked about if the whole Mass whas to be prayed in Latin, Cardinal Ratzinger replied that he considered that the first part, the Liturgy of the Word should continue in the vernacular, but that certain parts, specifically the Creed and the Canon should be prayed in Latin to avoid any confusion with the local translations. He also supported the use of Gregorian Chants and avoid popular of folk music.

I certainly wonder if those ideas he manifested as Prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith are the ideas that now as Pope Benedict XVI are the ones he may apply to the Mass. We'll have to wait and see.

God bless

Knowing that Pope Benedict XVI is a staunch supporter of Vatican II - but that he's not one of these "spirit of Vatican II" types - perhaps we'll see a push to see the Mass styled more like what was intended in the concilliar document "Sacrosanctum Concillium" - which recommended that Latin ought to be preserved - at least in the "unchangeable" parts of the Mass, such as the confeitor, credo, sanctus, angus dei, pater noster, etc.

Perhaps we will see urging to see the "Missa Normativa" in English resemble more the "EWTN Mass."

Many masses said in St. Peter's are already in Latin. What RC want is a tridentine latin mass celebrated there like on Christmas for the world to see. Why not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe this public, worldwide mass would be wonderful !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I remeber them well. I had not idea what the priest was saying - but I remeber them. A real pagent.

-ray

Not too get too far off topic on a Byzantine forum, but that is definitely where the practice of using a good missal in the pew is very helpful. The best missals not only give you the full Latin-English translation, but give you cues to where you are in the liturgy and also explain the rubrics and significance.

One who uses this will not only know what is being said, but will have strongly "inculturated" into them a sense of the liturgy, its meaning, symoblisms and also an intimate famiilarity with what is being said in the ordinary of the Mass.

I am a big fan of the classical Roman rite.

But I digress. Back to the East!

Dear Friends,

I disagree that the issue of the Roman liturgy is not related to Eastern Christianity!

Were it not for those problems, some of our parishes wouldn't be getting the large numbers of RC defectors they are!

And one RC once sorrowfully told me, "I want a parish where there is the old Benediction with the Blessed Sacrament, the Rosary, the Stations of the Cross etc."

I just told him to go to my old UGCC parish!

(So much for Charles' diatribes on the Rosary! )

Alex

So, which RC parishes should us vostochnyky go to for Vespers, Matins, antidoron, no panakhydas on Great Feasts, ... :p

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

In that case, you should be encouraging all those RC parishes to flagrantly indulge in liturgical abuses - so as to get more defectors like moi!

I don't think the news release means that the Holy Father is going back to the Tridentine rite except for use of the indult.

The Mass of PPVI may be celebrated in Latin--and should be when appropriate. Gregorian chant would be welcomed as far as I am concered.

Paul