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Originally posted by Danj:
I've never had the meatless version, except at a greek wedding in 1996 in Cleveland OH, they had the grapeleaves filled with rice and dill only, is this the same as you are referring to?
Danj, The Greeks call them Dolmades (? right spelling, Alice  ); the Arabs call them either Dolmathes (usually refers to the meat variety) or Warak Enab (most often used only for the meatless) - but the distinction in use is murky at best (says he whose Arabic is essentially useful at the food festival  ). In my experience, variations in ingredients are chiefly dependent on the maker's place of origin. (Interesting sidenote, as I think about it, I know a lot of men who make stuffed grape leaves; men who don't otherwise do any food prep - not sure why that is.) Basmati rice, dill, parsley, very finely chopped tomatoes, pine nuts, lemon juice, olive oil, and spices are probably the most common among our people. You'll occasionally find folks who add pimentos, onions, or fava beans/chickpeas. Our stuffed cabbage leaves (Warak Malfouf) use the same ingredients. Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Dear Neil, YUM!  Your spelling was impeccable!  But, I will make it easier...here in the melting pot of NYC and surrounds, my non-middle eastern/Greek background friends know them simply as 'stuffed grapeleaves'....  Alice
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Dear Incognitus, Thank you for your post. If you reread my original post: In Greece, this is the time for dressing in costume for adults and children alike, and for parades and wholesome partying..(UNLIKE the parades of 'Mardi Gras' in New Orleans ) you will see that I mentioned nothing about Athenian piety, simply that the costumed parades in Greece--(I don't believe that Athens even has one..I was thinking of Patras actually) are 'wholesome' in contrast to the decadent parades of New Orleans. I am aware that Athens does not uniformly hold piously to the traditions of Orthodoxy! Infact, most Athenians think it much more 'European' to NOT follow Orthodox tradition. However, there is no place else in the world that you can eat out every single day for Lent and be able to stick to the strict fast as easily, nutritiously and deliciously, IF you are so inclined, as in Greece! LOL! In Christ, Alice
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Dear Alice - I've seen some carnival costumes in Athens that won't bear description! On the other hand, nobody was costumed as Incognitus, so perhaps I should protest.
The problem with eating (in or out) and maintaining the fast rules is that it can be blooming expensive to do so! One year on Clean Monday I had been pursuing some research in the British Museum most of the day, and left when the library closed. I ducked into a sandwich shop, and the only item I could find that was kosher was a shrimp-and-avocado sandwich (even then there's no guarantee what ingredients were used in making the bread). It was delicious, but I certainly couldn't afford it for a steady diet.
I've cooked some delicious fasting-type dinners at home for company. Not only are the ingredients expensive; the preparation time makes it almost impossible to do anything else that day.
Nag, nag, nag, that's me.
Incognitus
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Thanks Neil for the info. I've never had the stuffed cabbage, but sounds good, plus with the cabbage one doesn't have to wait till summer to get the grapeleaves. As for men cooking, yikes....the stove is a scary place for me to be. My expertise goes as far as box cakes and what can be made in the microwave. My mom once asked me to put the spaghetti in the boiling water as she was doing something else, imagine her surprise when she turned around and saw me approximately 2ft. from the stove trying to get the spaghetti in the boiling water. She asked what I was doing and I said I'm not getting burned by the steam and boiling water Come to think of it, my grandpa never helped my grandma cook except to peel and slice the apples for her pies and he would help stuff the grapeleaves and the cabbage (pigs in a blanket). Perhaps we could get the administrator to open a new thread where recipes can be posted and exchanged. Dan---who wishes he was more nimble around the kitchen stove
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Danj wrote:
Perhaps we could get the administrator to open a new thread where recipes can be posted and exchanged. Posting recipes is a very serious undertaking. I think I would have to have the poster send me the recipe along with a sizeable sample of the prepared food for testing purposes. And, of course, cold beer or a good Greek wine to wash the samples down with. I�m not sure if there is enough interest in recipes to justify a separate forum. A good way to help determine this is to start a thread entitled �Recipes� in the Town Hall Forum. I�ll mark it as a �Feature Topic� so it will stay at the top of the thread. We can then see how popular it is over the coming months and use that information in determining a possible forum.
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If you plug in recipes to the search engine here, you will find some really good stuff! So here goes.... https://www.byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=001175#000000 https://www.byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000892#000000 https://www.byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001918#000008 https://www.byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000150#000000 and I know Niki's Baba lurks, I miss the postings... https://www.byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000135#000000 https://www.byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000087#000001 https://www.byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000557#000011 This is a good site for Pascha preparations from the Slavic standpoint... http://www.iarelative.com/easter/index.html Pani Rose
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True enough Pani Rose
Somehow at every Fasting season someone comes on and asks for ideas about meals - there ahve been some relly good recipes here in the past.
Maybe it's just me - I don't know - BUT I do know that I seem to get in a rut about cooking different things during the fast - I seem to rely on a few things that have worked . Still - when you are cooking 2 different menus [ only two of us in the house now ] it is a bit of a fiddle
Anhelyna
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Originally posted by Irish Melkite:
(Interesting sidenote, as I think about it, I know a lot of men who make stuffed grape leaves; men who don't otherwise do any food prep - not sure why that is.) Originally posted by Danj:
As for men cooking, yikes....
Come to think of it, my grandpa never helped my grandma cook except ... and he would help stuff the grapeleaves and the cabbage (pigs in a blanket). Danj, Ah ha, your grandpa makes my point. I became curious enough to call a friend, an elderly Lebanese gentleman, who I know prepares the stuffed grape leaves in his home - altho I have never seen him do anything else in the realm of food prep. He pointed out that grape leaves grown on an arbor in the backyard (which many of our people do) were inevitably the province of the man to care for, because of height differences. Thus, the natural conclusion, as he saw it, was that the man should carry through to completion of the tasks involved in preparing them for the plate. Sounds as good an explanation to me as any I could have concocted . Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Administrator, We'll have to send you the finished product fed- ex overnight, which is expensive and alot of packing involved there Seriously though, it's true that one can do an internet search and find recipe's for most anything, I just thought It would be nice to have a sort of on-line "cookbook" we could also include Prosphora/Qurban, altar bread and koliva (I have a recipe for it, but have been unsuccessful in finding "hulled" wheat in any grocery store, so the recipe sits in my file cabinet till I can get the wheat). Who knows, seeing the recipe's may give me the impetus to try to resolve my fear of boiling pots phobia. Yes, Neil, there are two grapevines in my grandpa's yard on a great trellis he himself built many years ago and we mostly use the vine for the leaves......we leave the grapes for the birds to consume. BLessed old-calendar Nativity, Dan
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Blessed Nativity of Christ to everyone!
There is a nice website about Prosphora, with lots of recipes (not all of which have to do with prosphora) and useful links to other food information. Unfortunately I don't remember the address, but one or another search engine should be able to locate it.
Incognitus
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There is a nice website about Prosphora, with lots of recipes (not all of which have to do with prosphora) and useful links to other food information. Unfortunately I don't remember the address, but one or another search engine should be able to locate it. Dear Incognitus, The website has been created by an Antiochian Orthodox priest named Father George Acquaro... It is: www.prosphora.org [ prosphora.org] In Christ, Alice
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Alice,
Very interesting site. Father George makes some beautiful Prosphora stamps.
Many years,
Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Dear Alice,
Kala Khristougenna! Thanks for refreshing my memory; that website truly is lovely, even though I'm no good at baking bread.
But that reminds me to go to the Italian food shop tomorrow and buy a panettone. Delicious! Especially with hard sauce.
Incognitus
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OK, time to get this topic going again! lol St. Thomas the Apostle (Gilbert, AZ) is having a Sock Hop on Feb. 18 -- everybody join us, as that's the final party we'll have until St. Thomas Sunday, our feast day!
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