www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization The OCA and cultural expressions

Dear Friends,

This is a question relating to my memorable attendance at the ordination of my friend, Fr. G. Korz.

And it relates to the cultural component of the OCA.

The OCA "up here" follows the old calendar et al.

Could a Ukrainian, for example, belong to the OCA and still be "Ukrainian?"

I mean this in a most serious way and I'm just trying to get a "feel" for the cultural situation.

Is it a melting pot in the U.S.?

Alex

Andrew may have an opinion on this also.

There was a time, before the autocephaly, when we were the Russian Metropolia, that such cultural integrity was discouraged. For instance, what is now the Johnstown Diocese under the Greeks actually did approach the Russian Metropolia. They said no. Again, the a Bulgarian group approached the Metropolia in the 50s. They said no.

Today, the story is much different. The OCA, being autocephalous, is made up of various ethnic dioceses (which is supposed to be temporary in itself) which retain their own traditions, languages, episcopacy, and even liturgical translations. Currently, the OCA has Bulgarian, Albanian, and Romanian (ethnic) dioceses. It also has several Serbian parishes within the geographical dioceses.

Cultural traditions are not a stumbling block for inclusion into the OCA.

You may also want to pose your question to more official voices at info@oca.org.

Priest Thomas

Bless me a sinner, Father Thomas,

Excellent!

An OCA parish near my in-laws' Naples, Florida condo, St Demetrius, seems to have many parishioners of East Slavic background and when I attend there, I notice that they have many East Slavic traditions.

I didn't know what an "icon scarve" was, at first . . . (Did icons "get cold" and in Florida? ).

The parish I attended on St Thomas' Sunday is noticeably Russian in cultural flavour and there was even an icon dedicated to the memory of Tsar Saint Nicholas II etc.

It is culturally flexible enough to have incorporated my new priest friend who speaks no Russian.

It seems to me that the OCA is a truly remarkable experiment in flexibility and cultural adaptability that is just what is needed in North America.

Personally, I find that I am going back to Church Slavonic, e.g. the Jesus Prayer, the Our Father etc. and that there is something about it that opens up a sacral world that is at once historically Slavic and relevant in terms of the modern need for the sacred and the mystical.

Alex

Bless me a sinner, Father Thomas,

This brings up another question involving the glorification of the Romanov Family.

I certainly am a great devotee of the Holy Tsar and his family, as you know.

And I know that Russian parishes, such as the one I attended, love them as well.

Is it something that could, potentially, be a divisive issue in any OCA or other Orthodox parish?

From a pastoral perspective, what would you do in this respect?

I've crossed sabres here over this issue, and I've learned that there are Orthodox who would rather not venerate them etc.

If they are glorified as Orthodox Passion-Bearers - that's the end of it, is it not?

Alex

Some true confessions, just for a moment...

In the 60s and 70s, there was a tremendous push to Americanize everything (a la Vatican II). Whether it was official, or just a product of the times, it makes no matter. Many of the Metropolia/OCA churches built during that period have the typical "A frame" look and feel to them. Although at the same time that a genuine iconographic tradition was being rediscovered, many of the churches went with the peek-a-boo iconostas, and rather bare walls, placing icons here and there.

Today, I believe, there is a rather marked backlash to much of that. A rediscovery of genuine and authentic tradition, which was dismissed by some as being too Russian, Ukrainian, or whatever. For instance, our parish in McKees Rocks, had absolutely no relics out for veneration by the faithful. This is typical for many OCA parishes in our area. Thanks be to God, we know have the relics of Ss. Innocent, Herman, Tikhon of Moscow, and will soon have St. Raphael. Hopefully the list will grow even more so.

We are also having the Lesser Blessing of Water tomorrow for Midfeast. Something rather "new" to our parish. I plainly tell them, this is the way it "used to be." And they like that. Well, most of them.

Priest Thomas

Bless me a sinner, Father Thomas,

Good for you - the OCA and your parish are lucky to have you!!

I have a small piece of the klobuk of St Seraphim of Sarov - what would our lives be without the Holy Relics?

Alex

Yes, it is the end of the matter. However, I think pastoral sensitivity plays a role in this. There are some who may hold them up for veneration simply because they wish to recreate an Imperial heaven-on-earth in their parish, rather than to hold them up as examples of true suffering and patient endurance.

I used the feast of the New Martyrs of Russia as an opportunity to preach on the subject. (I'll post the link to the sermon here. Right now my server seems to be down.)

Priest Thomas

Bless me a sinner, Father Thomas,

I look forward to reading your sermon, as I know do others here!

The other day, my wife's interior designer's husband, a Greek from Russia, came by (helping with carrying some carpets).

His grandfather was shot by the Bolsheviks and by the end of the afternoon, I gave him an icon of the New Martyrs of Rus'.

I understand that the Moscow Patriarchate has recently approved even more names of Holy New Martyrs to be included in the growing list, and has also approved a liturgical service in their honour.

The Litia for All Saints of Russia includes the actual recitation of ALL KNOWN SAINTS who lived in Rus' from earliest times, beginning with St Andrew!

That must take a good chunk of the day up!

But good for them anyway . . .

Alex

From my limited exposure to the OCA I would have to say that I believe that they are doing things pretty well in the efforts to incorporate the various ethnic groupings into the church and I admire that.

Personally, I cannot see how any one ethnic church group can stand on it's own out into infinity. There has to be some way to sustain the church into future generations for the benefit of the grandchildren of the believers of today. If they should want to continue in the Eastern Church there is every probability that they will not continue the mother tongue and that will lose it's relevance for them.

The Eastern Catholic churches should imitate the OCA in this regard. For myself, being a totally Americanized believer I would investigate the OCA first if I were to have an interest in going to Orthodoxy.

Michael

XB!

I was under the impression that it was the other way around: the Metropolia and the Moscow Patriarchate wanted the Carpatho-Russians in America to join their respective jurisdictions, but the majority of Carpatho-Russians decided against it. They looked back at the reputation the Russian jurisdictions had with respecting the Carpatho-Russian tradition, especially with now St. Alexis Toth and Bishop Stefan Dzubay, and decided their traditions would be retained being under the Patriarchate of Constantinople. "Ani do Rimi, ani do Moskvi" as they said.

I believe this is the basic history presented by the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Diocese in the book published a few years back... the name escapes me at the moment.

David

According to an article [orthodoxresearchinstitute.org] written by Archbishop PETER, he makes the following statement:

"When in the thirties a substantial group of Uniats from Carpatho-Russian origin approached the Metropolia to be accepted into its bosom under the condition it constitute a diocesan unit, the episcopate of the Metropolia rejected this request precisely because of that condition."

Now he does not identify who this "substantial group of Uniats from Carpatho-Russian origin" is, but I can only assume that he is referring to the group under, then Father, Chornock. There were no other specifically described groups in the 30s that returned to Orthodoxy of which I am aware.

It is, of course, well known that they wanted to avoid any imposed Russification. And it is also well known that they were indeed receivied by the Ecumenical Patriarch in 1938.

Priest Thomas

Just following up on a message I wrote earlier... (I am no longer able to edit that particular message)

We were discussing the Royal Passion Bearers and the New Martyrs of Russia, and I promised I would send a link to the sermon I preached regarding that feast day. They are in streaming audio. I'm sorry that the Russian translation is mostly out of microphone range, but that's what you're hearing in between each phrase.

Real Audio
http://www.stnicholas-oca.org/audio/1-26-03.ram

Windows Media
http://www.stnicholas-oca.org/audio/1-26-03.wax

Priest Thomas

Dear Alex,

Andrew does have an opinion on this, as the good Father hypothesized.

In a way, I stumbled into this same discussion in "Byzantine News" regarding the new "Metropolitanate in Spain and Portugal." I even proposed a model out of the quagmire, far from perfect and thus reflecting well its author.

In general, the OCA's stance has been one of ethnic inclusivity. Fr. Thomas explained much of it very well. What one might want to ask is "inclusion into what?"

The some will say that English is the official language of the OCA shows the anti-ethnic bias. This statement presupposes that the Church is made up primarily of English-speakers or that if they aren't, then they "ought to become..." I agree that they "ought to become," but for the purposes of work, school, and keeping track of their children. They may worship in one or many languages, none of which may be English. The language of the Church is the language of the worshipers. See I Corinthians 14 if you don't believe me. Language varies greatly from parish to parish. My home parish is 60-70% immigrants.

But a better example of this bias is in Article 12 of the OCA's constitution which clearly states that, when possible, the ethnic dioceses will "be done away with" (my words, I assure you!). The problem comes up in three ways:

1. The ethnic dioceses aren't going to allow themselves "to be done away with" (the Holy Spirit also guides us ethnics, you know).

2. The ethnic dioceses are growing as quickly if not more quickly than the OCA as a whole.

3. The ethnic dioceses have documents of reception into the OCA signed by her Metropolitan ensuring them that they will never "be done away with." The reception documents, in the case of the Albanians, precede by several days ratification of Article 12 of the OCA's Constitution. An outside observer might even say that "it looks as if someone planned it that way."

The Albanians, for example, are guaranteed a (whole) voting bishop on the Holy Synod [we always hope that he is wholy holy and also whole] . If we look to the track record, however, we find that the see has been vacant for 20 years and attempts to dissolve it, as the Bulgarians have already been, continue.

Let us look at that dissolution:

The Bulgarians had His Grace Kiril, Bishop of Toledo. That was his (first) see. A bishop may have one see only. Over any and all other sees, he would be an administrator or locum tenens, but the new see would be vacant until a permanent bishop could be found.

His Grace was then asked to also become Bishop of Pittsburgh and Western Pennsylvania. Now, which is his see and which does he administer? May a bishop have two sees? If not, then which see has been dissolved and absorbed? Search the OCA website and publications and try to find him identified as Bishop of Toledo in any place except on the page for the Bulgarians and then draw your own conclusions.

I love the OCA and serve primarily in the OCA, but this issue, pursued further, may do it great harm.

With love in Christ,
Andrew

Dear Reader Andrew,

I agree as well that the OCA has done a marvellous job at managing various cultural identities.

The other issue you raise is one I'm not familiar with at all with respect to the OCA, so I can't say, but it is an issue here in Canada.

I agree totally with you that the notion that cultural communities and identities are somehow "predestined" to disappear in North America is simply a lot of nonsense.

I did my doctoral dissertation on the topic of ethnic cultural persistence over generations and found that groups can continue to exist as vibrant cultural communities for decades and decades and still do.

When we had a Ukrainian politician visit us last week, the people most involved with the planning and organizing were those whose Ukrainian (Galician, Bukovinian what have you) ancestors arrived in Canada between 1890-1920 - not the post-World War II Ukies.

At a church meeting, several parishioners told me that they had some trouble with Ukrainian as they had been in Canada for a long time.

I told them I also have been in Canada for a long time, but that my grandparents and parents insisted I read Ukrainian books and newspapers etc.

It seems that these people haven't read anything in Ukrainian for quite some time . . .

And,yes, if you don't read and keep up with the language, history et al., you'll lose it.

I'm not all that familiar with the U.S. situation and I think the "melting pot" business has been largely a caricature as we Canadians perceive it.

But up here we have Anglo-Saxons learning and using French which is our second national language.

We have multicultural days of celebration etc.

I know a professor who speaks more than fifty languages. He to me that one needs only study a language for half an hour daily and that in a year or so one will be fluent in it. Perhaps that's just him

I used to believe that cultural groups lost the language over time like a snake loses its skin.

But such a loss is self-imposed, brought on by laziness etc.

I admire you, Reader, for your strong cultural identity and self-awareness of your historical heritage and community.

Alex

Bless me a sinner, Father Thomas,

I had to wait for "da boss" to leave the office before I could hear your sermon.

Truly insightful and well-delivered!

Did you study to be an orator or does that just come naturally to you?

Alex