www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Byzantine Parish Closing in Lake Worth Fl

As moderator of this subforum I ask everyone to remain respectful of our bishops and priests and not give in to wild speculation. We do not know the reasons for the closing and those involved in the decision should be given the benefit of the doubt.

Parsih closings are an extrememly hard thing and in psychological terms are the equivalent of a death in the family. As hurtful as this is to the parishioners, I don't think any bishop likes closing a parish, but the sad fact is sometimes it needs to be done. Sometimes the reason is financial; sometimes the reason is logistical. We need to pray for priests and deacons and monastics but more than that the laity must take initiative. If your parish loses its priest are you willing to step forward and organize and conduct reader's services, catechism, social activities, and fundraisers?

Fr. Deacon Lance

Tell me this.Why would any yooung man want to be a priest with some of the things going on.

I can only hope that clergy serving Lake Worth share the reasons for the closing with the congregation out of a desire to exhibit christian charity to the flock, to lead by example. After all, they are supposed to help protect their flock from harm, aren't they? The Forum members can give them the benefit of the doubt, but the congregation involved will need to know more, whether we ever do or not.

I agree with Deacon Lance about a need to have laity led services. Trouble is in some congregations there's often the idea that if it isn't "Mass", it is not worth attending. Our Orthodox brethren outside Rome don't appear to give Liturgy the same focus that Catholics do, i.e as the only service that matters. How it came to be the way it is, is largely a western influence, I think. I can recall many Roman churches that never had any other service besides Mass. That can lead to the mentality of "if the only tool you have is a hammer, soon everything begins to look like a nail". How this attitude is transcended will require more lay activity prior to losing a priest, for transition.

First, let me say that I empathize with and pray for the good people in Lake Worth. What a traumatic experience for them to go through.

I have been involved with a mission church (canonically we're not considered a "mission" as such, although the same amount of work and commitment is required... go figure)that has managed to hold on for eight years. For the most part, we've been holding liturgies in the gymnasium of a Catholic school. There have been times when we did not know if we'd have a priest until a day or two before. There were times we would have liturgy on Saturday evening at 5; the next Sunday, it would be 11:30 a.m; the next, 10 a.m.

Because of other activities in the school we've had to work around a 30-foot Frosty the Snowman "icon." We've had to vacuum the floor before setting up for liturgy and throw away half-eaten plates of food. On several occassions, we've ended Divine Liturgy to the "beat" of bouncing basketballs in the hallway from kids waiting for us to get out so they could start their games (a Catholic league, no less). This list goes on an on...

Why am I venting about this here? I guess that the closing of Holy Apostles has added to my overall frustration with the Ruthenian Church... at all levels, from laity on up. In part, this frustration may be the result of not being cradle-born BC. By this I mean...

>>> "We don't have enough laity to keep the church open."

I can't understand why we don't have pan-Byzantine parishes. There is strength in numbers... and more resources. And I really don't care if we sing "Christ is risen" in Church Slavonic, Ukrainian, Arabic, Greek, whatever. I think ethnic traditions are great, love 'em, but ethnic tradition (small t) should not trump the Tradition (cap T) of the Constantinopolitan Church. In our early naivete, we thought, wouldn't it be great for our mission to be pan-Byz. given the small numbers of Ruthenians, Ukrainians, Melkites, etc., who would have much more ready access to an RC church than make a 25-50 mile drive to their particular "ethnic" church. We were told, unequivocally that would not be the case. I know there are ethnicity problems in some areas of the "old country," but for our mission members, this is not the case. It appears to be a problem of jurisdiction on the hierarchial level.

Heck, let's even go a bit further down that slippery slope to hell... let's even talk about resetablishing intercommunion with our sister Orthodox Churches. Now granted, this is a little more touchy subject from laity on up, and I know there are not only historical but practical issues involved, but for God's sake, it's time to heal this wound and move on. It's time to get off our hierarchial high-horses.

Finally, has the idea of the consolidation of very small parishes been addressed?

>>> We don't have enough priests to keep the churches open?

From what I understand from my albeit limited resources, there in an abudance of priests in the "real old country." Why not bring a few of these worthy gentlemen across the ocean. Maybe begin by placing some of them in our more ethnically homogeneous parishes where the older folks still speak Rusyn or Slovak or Hungarian and gradually get them Americanized (just the good attributes).

Married priests? Sure, why not... what's the big deal here? Granted, there are considerations that would need to be dealt with and folks will need to dig a little deeper to support a priest and his family, but these are not insurmountable problems.

Would the option to marry prior to ordination substantially increase the number of presbyters? I really don't think to any great number, mainly because of our wealth/power-oriented society where people are encouraged to go for the big bucks.

As for the term "lavendar mafia," I think we are getting a little extreme... almost conspiracy theory thinking. I will say, however, that there is the possibility that because now it is more acceptable to be openly homosexual, some men may not be entering the priesthood. Not because it somehow is this big gay social club, but because in years past, when no one was openly gay, it provided a place to hide. No explanation was needed as to why a guy wasn't married. There may also have been family/society pressures to have a priest in the family. Years back, many men began their training to be a priest before they were out of high school and to back out was a disgrace to your family and parish. I also was told by an RC priest that the standing "joke" in many ethnic Irish communities was that if a boy couldn't catch a ball, he would be the priest in the family (wink, wink).

Too much prayer?
I don't think that there can ever be enough prayer. But I do think we can be praying for the wrong things sometimes. Let's just pray that God show us the way so that we won't end up praying at the funeral Divine Liturgy of the Ruthenian Church.

Thank you for the opportunity to rant a bit.

P.S. On a related matter, I think it would be a good idea for laity/clergy to not be so church "structure" oriented. To much time and money is going into creating huge edificies. In today's highly mobile society, parishes literally need to be able to pick up and move and go where the people are. This doesn't mean we do away with the beautiful and sacred art and objects of the Byzantine Church, but rather the building structure itself should be more shell-like. Everything inside would be portable/moveable. Need to move the parish... pack up the icons, altar, icon screen, etc., and away you go.

Just a note to point out that the faithful in question will continue to be served. The website indicates that the Byzantine Divine Liturgy will be served on Saturday evenings at a Maronite parish. It doesn't specify, but I would presume this will be served by a priest traveling from the parish that parented this one 35 years ago or some other parish in the vicinity.

Many years,

Neil

Amen! The "it has to be Mass" mindset is very solidly anchored.

There are many things that can be done. It is essential to keep the prayer life of the community going, as without that everything else will fail.

Nearly every service except the Divine Liturgy can be done as a Reader's Service. The liturgy, priestless or with a priest, is the very life and breath of the community, our public identity as Greek Catholics. We really have to get over the latinized idea of reducing everything to "mass".

Unfortunately many think no priest, dead parish. Look at many of the missionary monastic fathers. Many weren't even priests, such as St. Herman of Alaska on our own continent.

The community can still gather for prayer using our beautiful received tradition, and fellowship, meals, etc. can still happen without a priest.

When our local pastor was retired we existed for several months without a full time priest. A priest would fly in from Ohio and consecrate extra Lambs, and I would lead a Reader's Typika for the other four to six weeks when a priest was not available in addition to some other Reader's services.

Not only did we make it through, but we have significantly grown since that time.

.

Joe-
Right on again.

As for Laity-led services, why not?
It could be done, but if the decision is made to sell Church property, would laity-led services to keep a parish open even be considered? I highly doubt it. I remember reading about a small parish in New Jersey that offered the same idea. The church closed. No discussion.

$$$ would be one factor, but another important factor is that laity don't really 'lead' much in our parishes, other than fundraisers or ECF. I would think any person who stood up to offer to 'lead services' would be squashed, no discussion.

pan-Byzantine parishes may just be the way to go to ensure survival. People in today's diverse society would be able to adjust to the different liturgical nuances, in favor of not having to drive 50 miles, etc. We aren't as hung up on ethnicity as our parents or our heirarchy. Our children don't care who is Ukranian vs who is Ruthenian. Our children are American. Our society is vastly different. Drawing lines around ethnic boundaries is seen as small-minded, old fashioned or just old. What young American wants to be a part of that?

The real problem with forming one large church is simple- which member of which heirachy would have to give up some of his power? What about the property? The structure? The money? The thoughts of changing the status quo take priority over survival?

I know again this is harsh. In reality, there aren't many functioning kings or princes left in the world. The days of the ruling class lording over serfdom are going going gone. Society is educated, communication is instantaneous, and choices abound. "because I said so" doesn't cut it anymore. Our churches need to move out of this mentality and into the 21st century fast- or not.

Again- my opinion, to be read freely and not forced on anyone.
Sam

lay led services may just have to be an option if all else fails. when I was an undergrad at UT Chattanooga, there were times Father Al couldn't make it to Wednesday noon Mass at the Newman Center, so our trusty housemother Miss Janet, would lead a Communion service (with pre Sanctified Hosts taken from the Tabernacle of course) we students took it into stride, assisted in the service, then had the nice lunch from whichever parish was serving that day (knew there had to be a catch, didn't you).Miss Janet had full approval to do this. I know, we're talking about Latins, but that was it, and if I had any problems with it, I got over them.
OLPH in Chattanooga used to have Father Emil (God grant him eternal rest) who was a Ruthenian celebrate a Divine Liturgy once in a blue moon, and attendance at the Liturgy, as it was held at a normal Sunday Mass time, was seen as fulfillment of Sunday obligation(How much I would like to see another Father Emil visit Chattanooga), so no Liturgy? go to Mass, works both ways.
Ethnic tensions need to be left back in Europe, the Middle East, or whereever as that is where such things belong, people of the same liturgical family need to open their doors and be willing to walk through doors open to them if they wish to attend Divine Liturgy. If you can't live with that reality, then attend Mass, just like I have to,and don't forget to cross yourselves in the correct manner, as I do. bring your Orthodox prayer book, and do your prayers before and after receiving the Mysteries at the Latins' Mass. Life goes on.
As far as interCommunion with the Orthodox, great idea, I look forward to the day, but it's a long time a comin'.
So, either have a Reader service or go Mass. but for heaven's sake, get over yourselves and stay focused on what the Liturgy is about: communing with Him
Much Love,
Jonn

Good post Moncobyz; good, constructive ideas - not a rant at all.

Greetings. Has any further information been released as to why there was a relocation?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

Michael

I have some information that might help.

Originaly, the property was to be the sight of a monastery, called The Three Holy Hiarchs. I belive Fr Wendt was to be the head of the monastery. (In the building that became the rectory, there was a very beautiful chapel, pewless, and the iconostas was very simple but nice.) The monastery was disolved. In the mean time the faithful which became Holy Apostles Parish were wandering, They first had their Lituries at the Centicle Retreat House, then they had the Liturgies at a Funeral Home, for a time. Then they came back to the property and built the church.
When I went to St Herman's OCA church last weekend for their Slavic Food fest, I was talking to the Pastor. He told me that Holy Apostles offered to him any of their things if he could use them, He also said that he offered them the use of His Orthodox Church on Saturday nights for their liturgies. I thought that was great .
Anyway, I hope that this info might answer some of your questions

May God bless and grant many years to Father Michael Zaparyniuk for his kindness and Christian charity to his Ruthenian Catholic brethren.