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Joined: Nov 2001
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My guess is that this church belongs to the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association. Take a look. http://www.catholicnews.com/ Paul
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The Church is most impressive - I'd love to see the inside. As to "jurisdiction", the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association is not a jurisdiction and does not own the Church in Shanghai - and everyone involved with the Church in China will join me in assuring those interested that there is only one Catholic Church in China, despite problems and divisions.
Incognitus
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Incognitus, I just read this from a link offered by Gordo. Are you saying that Cardinal Kung report is a lie? "Failing to stamp out the Catholic Church, the Chinese government created in 1957 its own Church, called the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association." http://www.cardinalkungfoundation.org/index2.html What evidence do you have to support your contention that there is no such thing as the Chinese Patriotic Association? Dan L
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I have not said that there is no such thing as the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association; that organization certainly exists. I have said that it is not a "Church". Cardinal Kung's analysis - 50 years ago, I note - is an analysis I'm not sure that I agree with, but to disagree with someone's analysis is not to call him a liar. Please refrain from putting words in the mouths of others; that does not advance peaceful and fruitful interchange of thought.
Incognitus
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Dear Friends,
Certainly, the Vatican has never acted as if there is a division within the Chinese Catholic Church, Patriotic Association or the Underground.
In other words, it has never considered that the Chinese Patriotic Ass'n is in schism from it (even though, technically, it is!) - not from its own volition.
One acquaintance of mine visited a Chinese Catholic parish while there.
He said he saw many nuns (they use the Tridentine Rite) and children praying with their grandparents.
He saw many rosaries being sold and wanted to buy one but after the Mass ALL were sold . . .
Alex
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Dear Incognitus,
Yes, absolutely!
I gather that Pat. Filaret is quite happy with the move as Patriarch Lubomyr and him get along very well . . . and this is what is perhaps the most disturbing feature of this move - to the ROC.
Alex
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Dear Alex,
Thanks - please don't forget the horilka.
Incognitus
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I have read more recent reports that many of the so called Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association are actually in good standing with Rome and of course some are just puppets of the Chineese government and have no contact with Rome some places allow religious freedom within the walls of the church and some force the church loyal to Rome go underground while in the same vicinity the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association practices without any contact with Rome it just depends on the local government and if they have hangup with Religion or not. Some Communist do have an extreme hangup about it some think its silly superstition but it keeps the people happy and is ultiamtley harmless. So there is no clean status of Roman Catholcism in China.
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Dear Incognitus, Sometimes I think the world would be better off with more "horilka!" (Whiskey, to all you Anglo-types!  ). Alex
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic: Dear Incognitus,
Sometimes I think the world would be better off with more "horilka!" (Whiskey, to all you Anglo-types! ).
Alex TSK TSK TSK - Alex - you know better than that :p It's WHISKYAnhelyna - who prefers single malt
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Dear Anhelyna - make mine uisce beatha - although rice wine might be more in keeping with the Chinese theme of this thread. Ganbai!
Incognitus
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Thanks Amado!
I think that China will be the great harvest of Christ's church.
Pray for the church persecuted!
Paul
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