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When I posted this query on the Catholic Convert board I got a couple of positive responses but most of the responses were negative. I hope it will get a more fruitful response here.

Why is there so little talk about the one positive response to Islam: Missions? It would seem to me that until we take more seriously both the great commission and the promise that Christ would make all of creation His footstool this business with the Moslems will go on forever.

Surely, we failed to treat second through seventh century peoples of North Africa and the middle east with open arms to the faith. Hence, they were lost to the kingdom and went instead to the Moslem Christian heresy. We can rectify the situation through mission work, but do we have the faith to do it?

What is your response?

Dan Lauffer

Active conversion of Muslims in the Middle East? That'll be the day. We're barely surviving with all the emmigration that's taking place back home. We're nationalist blowhards and though often mutter amongst ourselves, "If only Islam was never born and never came", we would still feel more solidarity with a Muslim Arab than with a Christian foreigner with all the political turmoil we experience. The pre-disposition on the part of Christians to actively go out and make Christians out of Muslims is very lacking. The best weapon in the arsenal is Christian example at this point in time. A very complicated situation and history: such is the Middle East.

There will be no hope of the rebirth of a Christian East without the reunion of the Churches.


Just who exactly is "we"? These people you mention were the Christians of the East. The despicable Islamic "fatah" subjegated us to foreign rule. (the Copts understandably greatly regret their foolish decision to help the Muslims against the Rum) The jizzieh tax and our second-class citizen status to use an understatement, was enough of an incentive for Christians to convert to Islam. Advantages of becoming Muslim ellicited many conversions.

In IC XC
Samer

The same was true of the Christians of the Balkan peninsula. Greeks were told that if they cooperated with the Ottoman Islams, they could advance in the society. Same for the Serbians, Bulgarians and Montenegrins, Bosnians, Herzegovinians, Albanians and -- to a certain extent-- the Romanians.

Unfortunately for them, they got screwed. Their neighbors were slaughtered; their villages were 'taxed' and their leaders were murdered for any infraction of the rules by a subordinate.

Islam? A 'religion of peace'? Sorry, but this Greek-American doesn't buy it at all. There is no other religion that allows "jihad" against other folk. There is no other religion that allows for 'apostates' to be killed because they left the faith. And there is no other religion that allows individual leaders to issue a "fatwah" (mandate) that allows the murder of designated people for one or another reason.

For us in America, we are obligated to accept ALL who live among us; but as descendents of those who were persecuted or murdered on behalf of "Islam", I'll recall the old saw: "Trick me once, shame on you; trick me twice, shame on me." I'm keeping my eyes open.

Blessings!

Perhaps my way of questioning was unclear. The "we" is Christian, not some ethnic group or other. If St. Paul from Southern Asia Minor can evangelize Greeks, Romans, and perhaps even Spaniards and British and American Catholics can evangelize Africans and Asians why can't Catholics from whatever country evangelize Afghans, Pakhistanis, etc. Ethnicity has not stopped us in the past and it has not stopped some Protestant groups. I know that we Catholics have cross-cultural missionary work going on now why isn't there a move for mission work in Muslim countries?

Dan Lauffer

Dan:

I think there are several reasons, but perhaps the main reason is that in most if not all Muslim countries it is a crime to proselytize. In some places both the converter and the convertee may be put to death. Also, since Catholic Churches exist in most of the Muslim countries, the Church is wise enough to listen to the local Churches as to the chances of success and possible repercussions. Do not forget near genocidal pogroms have been initiated against the Christians of the Middle East by Muslims, most notably the Armenians and Assyrians.

Protestant efforts are, in my opinion, generally ill conceived and take no cognizance of the effect they will have on indigenous Churches. In fact, they act as if the Orthodox and Catholic that are there don't exist. Protestants tend to forget Our Lord's admonition to shake the dust off our feet from the places that do not receive us.

In an effort to convert those who clearly want nothing to do with Christ, they create problems for and in some cases persecutions of the indigenous Christians. I think our efforts are best spent supporting them and ensuring their continued existence. This type of evangelization is more important than "shouting from the rooftops" about Christ.

"This is my commandment: love one another as I love you" ( John 15:12 NAB)

In Christ,
Lance, deacon candidate

Dan, two points need mentioning.

First, in the context of the Middle East (I am not speaking of countries like Pakistan, Malaysia, etc.) no cross cultural evangelizations. Impossible; there can never be a response. The natives must do the evangelizing, mostly through Christian example today. There must be no cultural friction. And in an ideal world where we have a Christian Middle East, the last thing needed is for Middle Eastern Muslims to become Latins (I know you did not insinuate this). Even non-Latin evangelization will not work. (And I believe it is essential that Muslims convert to the national Church that is traditionally situated in their respective regions) Nationalism is potent in that region and only the Churches of the region have a wheeze of a chance of effecting any conversions. Again, a reunited Church is the key to this project. I think it is moot to seriously consider any good prospects otherwise. In addition, it is necessary that we Middle Eastern Christians repopulate the region after our sojourn in the lands of the West, but Americanism has set in like a cancer and it becomes less likely that much give a %*$# about their country or heritage or pay heed to the pleas of the Patriarchs anymore. The new generations are pathetically hopeless. We also must realize that the Churches are walking a very, very thin tightrope here just as the Pope is doing in his compromises with Russia in the matter of the remnants of Eastern Catholics that are present. Just as the Pope wishes not to aggravate the situation in this matter of "Uniates", "proselytization", and relationships with the Orthodox Churches, so do we in relations with our Muslim co-nationalists. The situation is delicate and the Patriarchs use the power of diplomacy to secure the well-being of our communities by forging relations with the states (yes, we in Syria, and the Patriarchs, have no choice but to support Assad and Arabic nationalism [which is meant to serve as a counterforce against Islamic fundamentalism] for survival, while our hierarchs must as protocol in certain sermons of solemn occasions make mention of him and laud his leadership.) Active, dynamic proselytization, from outside, no less, is lighting the fuse to an explosive ton of TNT. Globalization may be the new trend in everything these days, but it doesn't work with religion here. It really isn't a small world after all. The microcosm of the Middle East must be managed from the inside, and given the patriotism of Arab Christians, and bellicose religious temperments of Muslims, certainly NOT from the outside. The Christian East is not dead yet and if our debauched Arabic-American playboys would wake the h*ll up, we can get back to the business of saving ourselves back home and revitalizing the region with a strong Christian presence.

What follows is more or less a rant, so I'm not addressing you Dan while speaking on the matter of Protestant evangelization as you didn't suggest it.

You mentioned the Prots. Good point. In the past, they did much missionary work, and I don't hesitate to say they are such an infection and cancerous tumor that I'd gladly prefer Muslims over them. The missionaries tended to be high-church Lutherans or Anglicans in the past (better than televangelists, but I've seen enough Egyptian Christians of the "believe and you will be saved" and "let us see what Scripture says" variety of Christian) Still, Protestantism in whatever form, high or low church, (ie. plain heresy and a historically Western anomaly that is poisonous to both Western and especially Eastern Apostolic Christianity) is absolutely alien, dangerous, and corrupting to this region that was the birthplace of our religion. ("oh....protestant...no good, no good" as my mother's pious Tewahedo Ethiopian Orthodox maid says) Eastern Christians are Apostolic Christians and many don't know of the heresy of Protestantism and are easily fooled by one claiming to be Christian. They assume that a Christian automatically is a member of "one of the Churches" (not recognizing these few false ones, especially high-church ones, in the plethora of genuine Churches of the region) and one who venerates the Theotokos and saints, whose Church has Mysteries, a priesthood, and all those other essentials of proper Christianity. We don't need these quacks sifting through the sands of the ancient home of Eastern Christianity and presuming they have a legitimate calling to re-convert the Middle East (and that may include Apostolic Christians for all one knows) to their theological quirks and churches void of much of the life-saving Mysteries. The Christian East is ancient, dying, and fragile as glass. Don't bring a bull into the China shop! I have more than an idea of what an upbringing in Lutheran schools can do to an Orthodox Christian. The handiwork is easy to spot.

Thus, I spit at American Protestant polemics (pro-Israel of course) that center on our part of the world as they betray a zealous desire to have towelheads everywhere touch the screen, "in tha name of Jeeeeezuz!" and become "Bible-believing" Christians.

Go away!

Dr. John, I'm afraid you have a contender to your title of "most fanatical defender of community".

In IC XC
Samer

[ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: SamB ]

Lance and Samer,

I was seeking an education and you two have not disappointed. I sincerely appreciate your answers.

Yet, I have a burden to do or give something. Are there any channels through which those of us fairly ignorant of the culture can help from a distance? I do pray for the Church there. But are there other avenues?

You were correct to discern that I was not supportive of Protestant incursions but rather wondered if we might be do something to help. I used them as an example but quite realize that there presence can be quite destructive.

Dan Lauffer

Dan:

We can support and build up the Eastern Churches through the following organizations:

Catholic Near East Welfare Association
www.cnewa.org [cnewa.org]
Catholic Relief Services
www.catholicrelief.org [catholicrelief.org]
International Orthodox Christian Charities
www.iocc.org [iocc.org]
Aid to the Church in Need
www.kirche-in-not.org [kirche-in-not.org]
Patriarchal Order of the Holy Cross
www.cam.org/~stcroix/menuang.html [cam.org]
International Melkite Catholic Union's Adopt a Child program
www.cam.org/~stcroix/umciang.html [cam.org]
As I become aware of others I will post them.

In Christ,
Lance, deacon candidate

Thanks. I've passsed these on to my parish priest. He also has a burden to try to help.

Dan Lauffer

Lance, thanks for providing some pertinent information. Good financial channels that help to provide for the Churches' well-being in the Levant are something to be thankful for.

Dan, I know what you mean. Feelings of helplessness are something I'm very familiar with. I'm concerned about a lot of things, some which others would think I shouldn't be bothering about.

In IC XC
Samer

[ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: SamB ]

Hi everyone!

I'd like to offer my condolences to everyone regarding the tragedy of Sept. 11. I hope everyone is recovering ok from that terrible event. We're praying for you all.

I couldn't resist throwing in my two cents regarding Sam's comment about over-zealous Protestant groups in the Middle East, or areas traditionally Eastern Christian.

I couldn't agree more!

I remember reading an article a few months ago about Evangelicals 'taking Ethiopia by storm', so to speak, and I was quite upset. They say that they are bringing the people the real Gospel (of course without all that fancy liturgy stuff, who needs that anyway, right?), but the Gospel has been there for almost 1700 years already!

Meanwhile, the Ethiopian Church with it's beautiful liturgical, theological and spiritual traditions, but unfortunate lack of resources by way of clergy and educational material, is left scrambling to find ways just to maintain these traditions so they can be passed on to their children - a task already made so much the harder by the encroaching 'faster is better' Western mentality.

It does remind me, though, of another story I read about two Irish Catholic missionaries in Ethiopia. Realizing that Roman Catholicism wasn't likely to take hold in Ethiopia, they went about their business of conversion with quite a bit of zeal.......attempting to convert people back to Ethiopian Orthodox CHurch!!!

I am the only one who thinks they might have been onto something there?

God bless all!

God Bless the Ethopians!

Of all the Eastern Churches that I have read about the Ethopian Church has to be my favorite. There traditions and history are surpassed by none in my book.

It is such a tragedy that more people do not know about this beatiful Church. A lot of African Americans are looking for their "roots" lately. It is a shame that they do not find there real "roots" which are in the Ethopian Church.

Here is a little church (GE'EZ Catholic Church) that I found on the web and I send a little money to every now and then.

http://www.catholic-forum.com/churches/kidanemehret/

Hopefully, I will be able to visit the Church once the terrorist stuff calms down and I feel safe to fly.

God Bless
aByzantineCatholic

It is indeed a very real conundrum. The indigenous Christian communities in the Near East need our support, but perhaps it comes best in the form of financial, spiritual and psychological forms rather than in the form of missionaries. Traditionally (pre-18th century), indigenous Christians from the East were provided with opportunities for education in the professions, academic life and for the priesthood. Thus, Christians became the 'elite' in their societies, thus giving them a bigger voice despite smaller numbers. Imagine a Jordanian winner of the Nobel Prize who happens to be Christian. What would that say?

And, Samer, I'll be glad to share the title with you. (You got any automatic weapons?)

Blessings!

Dear Friends, I believe one of the best approaches to the problem being discussed is to support financially the seminarians and church building through the Catholic Near East Welfare Association. God Alone is Great!
Vito

Did anyone listen to the exerpts of the Bishop's conference? Cardinal George spoke of the need (at a later date not in any statements being drafted now)to address the issues of Christians not being able to practice their faith freely and that many problems won't be resolved in Muslim countries until there is more freedom of religion. He also spoke of a need to state that it is blasphemous to terrorize in the name of the God of Abraham. The conference is concerned that since we are viewed as a Christian country that at the present time anything the Church says right now will bring about a punishment on the small Christian minorities in those countries.

Nicky's Baba