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Greetings all,

I just read an article in THE SOWER (Ukrainian Catholic Eparchy of Stamford) about their eleven graduates from the St. Basil's minor Seminary. Seven of the seminarians will conintue their study at St. Joseph Latin Rite Seminary of the Archdiocese of New York. With Three Byzanitne Catholic Seminaries on the East Coast and two of which are struggling for more seminarians, why are so many of our future priests attending a Latin Seminary?

This is relevant to our parish life, because as our future priests they will be the spiritual leaders of our communites. For those of us longing to restore our ancient and venerable traditions, how does this help or hinder us? I visited the website for St. Joseph, and apart from early Church History and Patrisitcs, there appears nothing Eastern/Byzantine in their formation. But they do have extensive psychological assistance to help train the seminarians for cleibacy.

What are your thoughts on this reality?

Are such decisions still tolerable for any of you in the eparchy of Stamford, knowing that there are good Byzantine seminaries in North America (Particularly Holy Spirit in Ottawa and the Sheptytsky Institute, where our seminarians not only learn the liturgical rubrics of the Byzantine tradition but also the theological underpinnings of the rituals)?

Has anyone addressed these concerns to Bishop Losten in Stamford?

What is the eparchy's position?

Why was such a decision made?

What are (are there?) the accomodations at St. Joseph's for our seminarians?

Why do we not support our own seminaries?

What are your thoughts on this current reality still occurring in our churches: sending our seminarians to Latin seminaries?

ALity

PS- This is also noteworhty: "The seminarians who are currently studying theology at St. Joseph Seminary, Yonkers, NY will be assigned to help prepare adult catechists in Lviv, Donetsk and Kyiv." THE SOWER June 2, 2002

What kind of catechism are they teaching, if they are to be formed in a traditional Latin seminary, which would emphasize Thomistic Theology?

[ 06-11-2002: Message edited by: ALity ]

If I'm not mistaken, Bishop Andrew Pataki, when he was eparch of Parma, sent his seminarians to the St. Mary RC Seminary in Cleveland, not to the Byzantine Catholic Seminary in Pittsburgh. Admittedly, this involved only a handful of men.

I think that Fr. David Petras supplied their Byzantine formation at St. Mary's Seminary. He's now on the faculty in Pittsburgh.

In the 1980s, some seminarians from the Passaic Eparchy studied in Rome rather than Pittsburgh.

Holy Greek Catholic schizophrenia, Batman!...this is the same Bishop Losten who ordained two married men to the priesthood just last summer. I don't get it...I will be in Stamford in early August and will try to get in some comments. With St. Josaphat's in DC...St. Vladimir's is pretty close to Yonkers...I don't get it...

I should think that Bishop Basil would want to send these young men to Byzantine seminaries, but it just maybe due to cost, or the seminary may be closer to these young mens' homes. I know that my friend attended parts of the Latin permanent diaconate program in Syracuse, but also met with other fellow Ukrainian Catholic men and deacons seperately, headed by a Ukrainian Catholic Monsignor, to do Byzantine-specific diaconal formation. This was for the Eparchy of Stamford also. Maybe Bishop Basil has the same thing in mind for these young men?

All in all, though, I would rather attend a Byzantine seminary, where you can learn rubrics and theology specific to the Tradition. While Latin seminary would give a good basis, the theology IS mainly Thomistic, and, while not unreconcilable (I believe) with Byzantine Catholic thought, does not express the Byzantine theology specifically. It would be like learning the truths of Universal Catholic faith (which are the same throughout, I believe), but then having to "translate" them into Byzantine-specific understanding, such as the Mysteries, the Great Theosis/Purgatory, rubrics, etc. etc. Seems like a lot of extra work...

Does this make any sense?

Discerning

[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: Discerning ]

Discerning-

What I don't get about the whole thing is that we have two seminaries on the East Coast for the UGCC. They are OUR seminaries. Holy Spirit Seminary in Ottawa, is arguably the best place for any Byzantine Catholic seminarian to go to in North America. There they study at the Sheptytsky Institute where we have a small but excellant group of Ukrainian Catholic professors and theologians. Why on God's green earth would they not be sent there?

St. Josaphat Seminary in Washington DC is going through a transitional period and, God willing, a reform and rebirth, but nonetheless, I thought that the minor seminary, St. Basil's, was a feed/sister seminary working with St. Josaphat.

I can understand in the past, when we had no seminaries in North America, why we sent our seminarians to Latin seminaries. It only made practical sense. But what good is having seminaries for our church if we send our seminarians elsewhere? I am confused and would like to know why our bishops do these things, or allow them to occur.

The other issue concerns their foramtion. . . was not the reason we established our own seminaries in this continent was to be able to teach our future priests our own traditions, customs, rites, and patrimony? How latinized will these seminarians be? Is it just me, or is this an instance of perpetuating the "second-class Catholic" mindest of uniatism of old?

In Christ,
ALity

ALity, I agree totally with your post. The Byzantine Churches have been asked to reclaim their traditions wholly, and have their own formation programs. It would seem logical, no, paramount, that those in fromation for the UGCC goto UGCC seminaries, and,if not, at least Byzantine seminaries. I certainly hope it is not the menatllity of "second-class Catholic", as this is wrong, stupid, and should not exist.

When all is said and done, however, only Bishop Basil knows his reasons, and he is "THE say." But you are right, it does not seem to make sense.

Peace,

Rich

[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: Discerning ]

Do you think these young men chose to go to the Latin seminary, or asked Bishop's permission? That MAY be. I don't know.

That is one option, although that seems not realistic. I thought about that one!

This has really upset me, so much so, that I got an atlas out and looked at where Stamford and Yonkers were. They are about twenty miles apart. So maybe that has some relevance to it? Perhaps they will keep on living at St. Basil's and getting their Eastern stuff there, but affiliated, or kind of federated onto the St. Joseph Seminary, so as to get the accredidation of a Master's degree? I dunno. I am going to go to sleep.

Good Night,

ALity

Dear Friends,

If these candidates are being prepared under the tutelage of our Basilians, then, unfortunately, this comes as no surprise.

The Basilians have a reputation, which they do not dispute, for being pro-Latin, although they see it as being "pro-Catholic."

And they are often suspicious of "pro-Byzantine" seminaries as places that tend toward the "Orthodox schism."

Regrettably, for them, Vatican II and its call for the Easternization of our Church is something that involves everyone else but them.

Frankly, however, these students should stay as far away from Latin seminaries as possible and this not only because of "Latinization" fears.

These seminaries can be often downright "infected" with modernism. If people who send our candidates to Latin seminaries think they will get a "traditional" Catholic seminary education with an emphasis on the Papacy - they should take their blinkers off and take a good hard look at the Latin reality.

Alex

[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

Latinization is a real problem down here in Brazil. Some priests prefer to use the term, modernization instead or they say that this is a form of adaptation to the Brazilian culture.
I would like to know if this is some kind of rule that the Basilians follow. Why do they do this? Is this happening in North America as well?

Dear Ipreima,

Yes, it is a terrible problem, and I know our people in Brazil have had the Basilians and the Salesians for some time.

However, to be fair, Fr. Basil Zinko, OSBM (is he still in Brazil?) is a great Byzantine liturgist and his translated works such as his Horologion are excellent and set a good standard.

Our clergy in Roman Catholic countries tend to be very accommodating in terms of ritual to their RC neighbours.

Things like the three-bar Cross is a no-no because the Latins don't have it. Everything the Latins have, we should have, therefore, and vice-versa.

The RC's, for their part, don't see that great a difference in the Ukrainian Catholics, and this could be one reason why so many Ukrainian Catholic priests are "drafted" into service into the Latin Church in Brazil and elsewhere (Am I wrong?).

The use of Portuguese in our Liturgy doesn't help matters either (is it widespread in Brazil?).

I think that because we have greater spiritual diversity in North America that our Byzantine spiritual heritage can be more distinct and stronger as such.

Alex

Alex do you know of any effort by our Patriarch, Major Archbishop for you , to get the Basilian Order under the jurisdiction of our hierarchy and not Rome?

Do you see any relationship to this and the number of new bishops chosen by the synod who are not Basilians? Are we trying to rope them in . . . either play by our rules, or get off the court?

I heard in Ukraine that the Basilians were going to reform their order . . . again in an more Eastern tilt.

Are the Basilians the ones in control of the Stamford formation?

I pray that this is one issue that our hierarchs will discuss in the North American synod in June in Philadelphia. Seminary formation was one of the topics on the agenda.

Alex, what is your concern with having the Divine Liturgy in Portugese?

ALity

[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: ALity ]

.02 cents worth

Sometimes it seems as though the Eastern Churches are in competition with each other as to who is the best.....I don't mean this list.....

Attneding a Melkite Church, though we are Ruthenian, makes it a challange when we go home, or return. Though it is the same it is different.

Seems to me it would be easier to make the small changes necessary, even though it is sung differently, or the processions or entrances are differnt sometimes, this would be a lot less transformation. And the ideolgy would already be intact, thereby helping to restore Eastern traditions.

Rose

I have a picture of Bishop Vasyly Medvit, wearing full klobuk, riassa and with chotky in hand in Kyiv...and don't forget he is the Basilian (OSBM) Bishop of Kyiv. There is hope...Also Bishop Yuschak I have heard good things about from a brother subdeacon who has spent time with him in Poland. And the Sheptytsky Institute began in Chicago under the patronage of Bishop Innocent Lotocky, OSBM (but later moved to Ottawa, Ontario). Bishop Cornelius Pasichny in Toronto is doing a great job as well, follwing in the footsteps of Bishop Isidore.

Some important research and academic work has been done by the Basilians, and the Analecta has been a valuable academic resource for our church. Bishop Lawrence Huculak's "The Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysystom in the Kyivan Metropolitan Province" (Series II, Volume 47) of 1990 is a brilliant work and a case in point.

But it is true, major reforms are needed with the OSBM and it is good to see that there are those who are thinking along those lines. But on the other hand, we can't make them go away. But with the hierarchy being more balanced with Redemptorists and Studites, hopefully this situation will continue to improve.

Also in terms of the staff of St. Basil's Seminary in Stamford, there are no Basilians currently on the faculty that I know of. The Dean of Students is Father Bohdan Danylo, who is currently working on graduate studies through St. Vladimir's. And it is my understanding that the students will continue to receive formation from St. Basil's during this time.

I have spent part of four going on five summers in Stamford for their diaconal formation program and I have never even seen a Basilian on campus during any of my visits there, nor has one ever been involved with the Stamford diaconal program. On the contrary we have had Father Peter Galadza and Father Andriy Chirovsky for professors for much of our program. Fr. Danylo has taught Cappodocian Fathers for us in a very Eastern approach.

Again, I don't understand this business with the seminarians, perhaps it is a financial arrangement or something similar. But the point is we do have St. Josaphat's in D.C. and Ottawa as well, and even St. Vladimir's is not too far away. Even a combination of St. Vladimir's and something else would be better than just formation through a Latin seminary, if that is in fact the case here.