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Father bless!

Well said, Father Joe...it seems that our unique Eastern concept of economia is often times obscurred in clouds of rigidity which we impose on ourselves...

To do the full vsenoschnoe in the Slavic tradition of uniting Vespers, Matins and First Hour with all of the kathismata, litya, kanons, etc. would take most of the night if unabbreviated. This is simply not possible in most parish settings, especially if the pastor is taking care of multiple parishes.

But on the other hand, this is not to say that the celebration of Vespers and Utrennya should be ommitted. On the contrary, these should be part of every parish worship.

In the ancient church there was a distinction, as Archimandrite Robert Taft has well illustrated in his works, between the cathedral practice and the monastic practice. Our parishes are not monasteries, nor are our diaconate programs. There is nothing contrary to the tradition in having an abbreviated parish usage of the Divine Praises but historically is actually resonant with the tradition.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Stuart, surely a 30 minute Divine Liturgy was a mistake? Perhaps you meant a 8:30 breakfast & a 9:00 start to the academic day? God Bless.

IC XC NIKA,
-Nik
Your Catholic Web [yourcatholic.com]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nik:
[QB]

>>>Dear Stuart, surely a 30 minute Divine Liturgy was a mistake? Perhaps you meant a 8:30 breakfast & a 9:00 start to the academic day? God Bless.<<<

Perhaps I was just subconsciously expressing my fears about the new typical recension under review by the Ruthenian Council of Hierarchs?

Dear George-Stuart,

It certainly sounds like it!

Alex

Bless me a sinner, Venerable Father in Carmel!

Yes, the Matins with the "stuffing" knocked out of it!

In the time of St Josaphat, a rule was actually developed for the Eastern Catholic Church that allowed for the saying of the Hours without the canons and other propers found in other books, for convenience' sake (how I hate that term!).

Some monasteries I've been at serve Midnight, Matins and First Hour services in the a.m., then go into the 3rd,6th and Liturgy and then do the remaining three services in the late afternoon.

Yes, our tradition, following the 9:00 am Descent of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles, serves the Divine Liturgy in the morning.

I do think that one has to read the Horologion until the end of the sixth Hour before one may begin the Liturgy.

But what do I know?

Alex

Why is it that when the Byzantine Catholic Church in America does something you don't like, it's "Ruthenian", but when it does something good, it's the "Metropolia of Pittsburgh"?

Perhaps you were subconsciously expressing something else...

Dear Lemko,

All I want to know is if Stuart's parish says the Rosary before Mass . . .

Alex

Hi Alex,
They do not. However, the majority of the people genuflect and cross themselves left to right. Some of them even genuflect before they receive Holy Communion. I guess those are "Ruthenian" customs... :rolleyes:

Dear Lemko,

This reminds me of an issue a priest-friend of mine had with people crossing themselves from left to right.

I told him that the Copts did that. When he mentioned that in his sermon, he noticed that many started to cross themselves from right to left.

He related to me that some of them thought that "Copts" referred to a heresy . . .

Some people are so impressionable!

Have a great day, my Lemko Brother! (My family are Boykos - so we're Carpathian neighbours!).

Alex

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
[QB]Dear Lemko,

>>>All I want to know is if Stuart's parish says the Rosary before Mass . . .<<<

Surely you jest. There were a bunch of Tridentine "refugees" who did that for a year or so after I first arrived, but they made themselves obnoxious and were asked to desist, whereupon they left altogether.

Dear Stuart,

So it did happen . . .

You remind me of our Pastor who held a doctorate in Eastern Christian studies.

Whenever someone wanted to get under his skin, he just mentioned the public recitation of the Rosary . . .

I see that it still tingles the annoying nerve among you Eastern Liturgoholics

Alex

Father Elias:

Alex is right. The order for services in Synodal parishes is:

Ninth hour
Vepsers
Matins
First hour

(I guess there would be services such as the Midnight Office in monasteries after Matins)

Then in the morning:
Thrid hour
Sixth hour
Divine Liturgy
(Moleben or something of the kind on Feasts)
Prayers after Communion

The Third and Sixth hours begin when the clergy begin the prayers before the iconostas. When the priest gives the exclamation to begin them, it is the reader who chants (on one note and aloud) "Amen" and continues the hours. The deacon recites the prayers only for the priests this way. Then all required exclamations of the hours coincide with the ones the priest usually says to himself. Ideally, the beginning of the Proskomydia should coincide with the beginning of the Sixth hour.

I know this is very off topic, but this is obviously one of the most important things for the formation of deacons (this and how to swing a censer). Visiting the sick? What?

Daniil

Does anyone know the cost of the Pittsburg Programme? I know someone who may be interested.

Dmitri

For the candidates from the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh out of pocket expenses $300 for tuition each year plus books and travel costs.

Lance wrote: "For the candidates from the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh out of pocket expenses $300 for tuition each year plus books and travel costs."


Lance,

I thought the total cost was $1,500 per year?

[ 08-06-2002: Message edited by: J Thur ]