www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Evangelism

Inawe - "Just think pierogi, stuffed grape leaves, hot cabbage (Korean), spaghetti, hot dogs, chicken with garlic sauce, suchi, and apple pie at one great fund raiser repeated often!"

Mmmmmmmmmmmm. Don't forget the German Chocolate Cake! :p

Dr. John,

While I agree with some of your posts, I must take issue with some of the assumptions in your most recent on this thread.

For instance, "In my wildest dreams, I envision an America where ALL the baptized folks acted like baptized folks, forgot the labels and just prayed and did their utmost to bolster an America that lived Christian principles. Let folks go to one or another edifice to pray and establish a community, but let all the Gospelites come together in service."

First, you are also assuming that your definition of "baptized folks" is somehow homogenous among all "Christian" demoninations. May I remind you that it is not. A baptist entering into your club of Gospelites would disagree that anyone being baptized as infants are truly baptized.

They would also not accept many other Christians into your club if they drink alcohol, since those who drink alcohol do not live Christian principles.

If you go to my parents' baptist church they will tell you that Catholics and Orthodox are idolaters and are NOT Christians at all.

So, who gets to define these Gospelites? After your first meeting you would have fifty schismatic groups.

Bill said, "Elton Trueblood, the great Quaker theologian, believed that we have different churches (denominations) because people have different personalities!" So, is every church's theology equal? Under this theory, a member of the Assemblies of God who says I am going to hell because I bow to an icon is just expressing his personality.

I hate to throw some cold water on you guys, but the apostolic churches are NOT the same message in different packaging. To claim this is not only overly simplistic, but is unfair to the teachings of Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant churches.

How does this relate to evangelization? If Fr. Bob Schlitt at my university had taken your position, I would still be a Protestant. From what I've read on this thread, most of you think that would be great! Hey, I'm still a Gospelite!

For those of us who have suffered with our families in our decisions to leave Protestantism to become Catholic or Orthodox, and who have faces real persecution from old friends and family members, your reduction of the teachings of the Catholic and Orthodox churches to "different packaging of the same thing" becomes truly obscene. If you are correct, then I and many of my friends have suffered for nothing but mere packaging.

Am I anti-ecumenical? Not at all! I believe that talks between the different Christian groups are very helpfull. That does not mean that I believe all Christian churches are equal in their theology.

Do I think we have a responsibility to share our faith with others, even if they are Gospelits (whatever that is)? Yes.

Cizinec,

My point is that America is a country of many diverse religions. America is also a patchwork quilt of many denominations of which the Apostolic churches represent a handful among many. That is the reality of our concrete situation. And, yes, that reality has led to the existence of literally thousands of "autonomous" Christian communities within our country, and new communities are created daily!


It does seem to me that different religions and churches appeal to individuals with (obviously) different personalities and that is a position that can be tested empirically. For example, I have worshipped with Quakers, and have Quaker neighbors, and I know from experience that "our ways are not their ways and never shall be."

Therefore, my point is that one will either have to live with that reality, while cooperating on core "gospel" issues, or totally disengage from any cooperative efforts with non-Apostolic believers.

Each and every individual "personality" will have to make that choice.

Sincerely in the Gospel,

Bill

Brother Cizinec makes a valid point about the beliefs of the individual communities, but my surmise is that if we are primarily engaged in loving God (however one can do that!!) and loving one's neighbor by making sure that his/her life is a good one, then we won't be worrying about the minor stuff like age of baptism, beer and kielbasa, or administrative structures.

After the assaults of September 11, it was overwhelming to see people of every persuasion going nuts to help. And people were angry/distressed if they were not able to feel that they were going to do something directly. For me, it is a validation of the ancient Christian proclamation that man is essentially good and will do good when given the opportunity.

I see it is the same thing when dealing with non-crisis situations. Good people do good things. And if the opportunity to do good is available, all the other stuff just fades into the background.

We don't get to piss on one another unless we are well-fed, well-clothed, well-housed, etc. Then we have the luxury to focus on the less-important factors. But I think that the recent events have given us a wake-up call to focus on the truly important elements of being a baptized Christian. We are angry that we were attacked; but we don't want to penalize the non-guilty and will provide food, clothing and shelter to them. When providing food for the famine struck people of Afghanistan (or elsewhere), we are fulfilling our Christian duty -- and we just do what the Gospel tells us is our duty.

I kinda like the idea of "Gospelites". I think that when we pray and ask the HOly Spirit to come and kick us in a direction, we'll just have to do what the Holy Spirit requires. If a Baptist is uncomfortable with Catholics having kielbasa (or brats) and beer, that's OK. Let him live with his people and leave us alone. But when the alarm bell goes off to respond to the needs of the distressed, then we forget the minor stuff and do what people require of us and what Christ demands of His followers.

Blessings!