www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Why do people change rites?

Mor Ephrem,

Yes, since the split, the Catholic Church has been primarily (but not wholly) Western. However, in terms of the number of adherents, I don't think the Church has ever had a totally equal number in each tradition. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Western Rite services of the Antiochean Orthodox Church fairly new inventions (or reestablishments, whatever one may call them.) They haven't always been part of Orthodoxy, right?

ChristTeen287

Dear Christ-Teen:

The Antiochian Orthodox Church has approved only two versions of the Western Rite:

1) an English translation of the Tridentine Latin Rite with some corrrections and a byzantine epiclesis (named after St Gregory)

2) a corrected version of an Anglican Prayer Book with numerous byzantine corrections and some prayers borrowed from the modern Catholic Mass (they call it "Liturgy of St Tychon)

In your web search you'll find lots of "jurusdictions" offering the "western rites" such as the "sarum rite", the "Celtic rite", "Galican Rite". None of them is canonucal and most of them are not true Churches. Those rites are very much like "do-it-yourself" rites, invented liturgies and re-creations of ancient rites, pure liturgical fiction.

The Tridentine Mass is perhaps the rite which had suffered less changes through the history. It is thought that the Roman Latin Mass which was celebrated at the time of the schism was similar to the Tridentine Rite (it's important to say that there were a lot of local variations of the Latin Rite in the West. The reform of Trent established unified rite).

However, it is clear that the development of this rite had nothing to do with the Orthodox East and that the existence of Western Rites has a problem of legitimacy (there's a good article by Father Schmemann about this).
The Tridentine Mass as we know it now (and the Antiochian translations come from this version)had suffered very important reforms (not so visible in the rite itself but clearly reflecting the doctrines of the Latin Church). The first of the reforms occured almost inmediately after the schism! and the second reform was the reform of Trent at the time of the Protestant revolts. These reforms occured in times of severe crisis of Faith in the West and have nothing to do with the pre-schism Church.
But we can deny that it is an ancient liturgy.

The second liturgy, named after St Tychon was clearly deficient. First of all it comes from a Protestant Church and we have no doubts that Protestantism has nothing to do with Orthodoxy. Since its creation, that Mass was full of the spirit of Protestantism. It had to be corrected with Russian Orthodox liturgical texts (if you read it you may notice that it looks a little bit like an abreviated Liturgy of St John Chrisostom + some latin prayers). It is a blend of texts and liturgies, seen as an unaccpetable liturgical fiction.
The Orthodox Bishops of other jurisdictions were very critical. The Greek Orthodox Bishop of St Francisco issued a letter discouraging their faithful to attend those parishes and forbiding the concelebration with those priests.
Recently, the AOC recommended the Western Rite parishes to use the Mass of St Gregory and the use of the second one was suspended (a revision is needed).

Remie,

Thanks for the information. I've read the Liturgy of St. Gregory, and it's almost identical to the Tridentine Mass.

These "rites" haven't always been a part of Orthodoxy, right? Aren't these unique to the Antiochean Orthodox Church? Weren't they recently implemented?

I have always heard Western Catholic theologians state that both the Tridentine Mass and the Byzantine Liturgies have been in use, or at least their seeds have been in use, since about the 4th century. I was under the impression that the Western liturgies are as ancient as the Eastern ones; does this hold true? Thanks for the input.

ChristTeen287

These "rites" haven't always been a part of Orthodoxy, right? Aren't these unique to the Antiochean Orthodox Church? Weren't they recently implemented?

As far as I know, the AOC is the only canonical Church with approved Western Rites, but the WR movement's roots are not Antiochian.
Some Anglican priests and theologians from the anglo-catholic faction thought that it was possible to become Orthodox, they had the idea of the Western Rite. According to some sources, St Tychon approved a corrected version of an Anglican Prayer Book (the "Liturgy of St Tychon"), but it was never implemented.

In the 70's, some disafflected Episcopalian Congregations in the USA were received by the AOC (entire parishes, sometimes)and that's the WR vicariate.

This is their site, it's cool.
http://www.westernorthodox.com/

The history of the "Tridentine use" liturgy remains as a mystery. It is strange cause most of he WR parishioners are former Episcopalians and not Latin Catholics. Maybe they tried to atract some Latin people who were aloenated by the liturgical reform in their Church but this hasn't happenned.
Anyway, I don't think that many Latin Traditionalists would feel atracted with the L. St Gregory (although it has the text of the Tridentine Mass): it is in English, the hymns look very much like Anglican (and sometimes, very modern), the sermons are often "modernist" (I was told that it is in fact a Tridentine Mass that looks and sounds like the New Mass).