www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Married clergy...where's the money coming from?

This might be the kiss of death getting Kudos from me (I apologize if it is.) I have to agree with the general thrust of your statement KO63AP. The Church in America simply needs to adapt to the way of life in America. We don't have state sponsorship and funding for parishes, as I have been told exists by some of the older BCC and Orthodox that I know. I believe most households in America have 2nd jobs (spouse at work or 2nd job) that is life in America whether we like it or not, that's reality. Any married priest I know who has taken a secular job to supplement what their parish can pay them, knows right up front that they are a priest and need to have flexability for things such as funerals and emergencies. If the place of employment is not open to it, its not a job for them to take in the first place. Would it be great to fully fund the priest, pani and children...Absolutely!!! But lets stop and look at reality. If the quality of your work is not directly tied to what pay you receive it opens the flood gates to abuse and creates an entitlement attitude. We ALL know inadequate priests. Think of them as draining and not giving back. (granted most probably would)

From my own experience, I'd have to say that the reason people balk at the kind of giving needed to support a married priest is the same reason they often balk at tithing.

There seem to be so many cases of parishes that seem entrustes to them. It has seemed to me that every time one turns around there is some new project that ends badly or wastes scarce resources. Added to that, every time a parish starts to move forward and shows increased giving, the diocese steps in and wants a larger share to support and supplement other parishes that have a poorer track record at supporting their own program and clergy. It's very discouraging when one tithes and then finds out that there is a demand for more and more.

For example, my parish had a building drive some years ago. We were gifted through estates with somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 3/4 million dollars to get us started toward a goal of 2 million. Yet we changed pastors in the early stages and the new pastor told us--after the money was sent to the diocese for accounting purposes that we really only had 900 thousand. We borrowed, had a pledge drive and were supposed to be paid off. Then it was discovered that someone had failed to figure in interest on the loan, so we had a second pledge drive to pay off the new total. Now we have a second new pastor and we are told that the remaining balance on the loan is half a million again and we need to dig deeper to pay this off. I can tell you I am more than discouraged, having pledged twice, paid off the pledge, and now find the parish wants to "come to the well again." BTW, I was on the parish council and had the documents to show this accounting nightmare during its initial stages. Needless to say, I haven't been back on since and don't want to be again.

In the meantime, there are a number of projects to change the inside of the building to suit new ideas and new tastes over how it should look--all costing money we don't have. Where does it end?

My children tell me they would never contribute the time, talent, and treasure they have seen us contribute to our parish. So much for a good example to them, but they have seen this poor stewardship and have a whole different idea how it should be reined in.

It's a wonder the Gospel has gotten spread as far as it has.

BOB

I take it that there are such things as Parish Councils in the USA. What role do they have in determing expenditure in the Parish?

Hmmmm, actually I would say it's the other way around. America should adapt to the way of the life of the church. In this instance it means the most important thing, the glue that holds it all together, is the family.

Andrew

Right on. I think this is exactly what Popes in the 19th century were worried about in regard to the Church in America.

Pavel:

Parish Councils were changed in the new Latin Code of 1983 to be strictly "advisory" to the pastor. In other words, he doesn't have to take our advice or even listen to us.

We also have a new paradigm where everyone on council must come to an agreement on all issues. In other words, we have "group think" where the voice of a dissenter (another word for someone who asks questions) is no longer welcome and divergent viewpoints are discouraged.

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My earlier post, written in haste this morning, should read "There seem to be so many cases of parishes that seem TO WASTE THE RESOURCES entrusted to them."

BOB

Andrew...I agree...I believe we are thinking along the same lines...Vatican II and the Latins attempted to modernize and adapt total thinking to America and the "new" world they were living in (modern europe, etc...)...I agree that as Americans, Austrailians, Europeans, etc. we need to adapt to the life of the Church. The point I was trying to make was that my understanding from numerous conversations with friends from "the old country" was that finances were never an issue...whether it's "keeping the doors open" or paying the priest (with family) since the state would pay a priests salary. Which is probably another reason why tithing rarely seems to "take off" in parishes as an option...

I remember a certain group wanting to do that over divorce, they're called Pharisees. Sorry to be so blunt over it, but there it is. We must change America, America must NOT change us. Why else do you think our iconography has lasted so long?

Nathan...I believe I clarified in what context the above statement was made in my previous post...I need some clarification of your post...are you saying we should then change America by pushing to have government funding of our churches??? Since that was the only context in which I was saying we need to adapt to America.

Theophan said:

I hope this "new" paradigm is really an old one, known in Russian as "sobornost." The idea is that everyone prayerfully comes to agreement with the will of God.

Sophia

The biggest givers as to percentage of income are the biggest doers. The biggest complainers are the least generous. One who tithes financially or gives even more tends to also give of themselves. Just as Jesus said, "Where your treasure is there is your heart also."

CD

I don't know 'bout that as a rule that fits us quite like a glove. Complaining is an Olympic sport to most Slavs that I know, so the givers have to stay in training too!!

And also and more soberly, I know many of our old priests, which describes most of them these days, who are quite proud of their people because, historically, given the size of the parishes as compared to the Latin rite parishes, the per capita giving was a good bit higher in the east. It had to be or we'd have died out long ago!! And that was amazing in itself because many came here from a time and place where Churches had the financial support of the civil governing bodies.

We need not to forget those things when seeking solutions to current situations.

Eli

I missed it, I'm very sorry. Please forgive me.

True. My aunt told me my grandmother & grandfather faithfully sent money to "old country" each month. At the time she didn't understand, and used to say to her parents, "but we're poor too!" Not only did they support their church & large families here on their meager steelworker's salary, they also sent money "home."

While we do give more than Latins, we could give much, much more. It's really all about priorities.

Cathy...I think that sums it up perfectly...

Chris