www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization a particular kind of Priest

OK, I looked up "Ben Lomond" on Google, and found out a couple of things, but what I can't find is what started the whole thing.

Would some kind soul provide the Reader's Digest version of the Ben Lomond situation?

Thank you.

Orthoman,
Yes, you are right-for the most part Orthodoxy in America does as good as job as it can do with convert clergy-I was mistakenly extrapolating from my own personal experience.

In Christ,

Michael

[OK, I looked up "Ben Lomond" on Google, and found out a couple of things, but what I can't find is what started the whole thing.]

Best you look in the archives because it has been discussed here before.

A short synopsis is because of Liturgical practices and administrative practices. Many Antiochian parishes adhere to both the middle eastern and slavic practices and/or have a combination of both. The Antiochian Archdiocese decided they wanted to have uniformity in each parish. The Ben Lomond parish was unique because under Fr Anderson they retained some of the practices of the 'early church' and used both slavic and greek practices. When they were told by their new Bishop (who was from the middle east and only familiar with middle eastern practices) they had to get rid of some of their practices it was the flame that ignited the candle so to speak. When they refused all hell broke loose.
I attended Liturgy there about a year before the split and can honestly say I was spell bound. I stood with both goose bumps and tears it was so awesome. I did notice some peculiar practices, but nothing that I thought was taboo. Examples were that the Liturgy started in the center of the Nave (like in a Hierachal Liturgy with the Bishop present). There were about eight priests vested and present. The Liturgy continued until the 'little entrance' when the Gospel was taken thru the Royal Doors where the Liturgy continued in the Sanctuary. Just like when the Bishop comes. At the 'Great Entrance' the entire congregation did a full prostration and remained fully prostrated until the articles for consecration were taken thru the royal doors.
All the women had long skirts and covered heads (which I'm all for).
Another big issue is that these former Protestant Ministers now Orthodox priests stayed attached to that paricular church once they became Orthodox. As I stated, there were at least eight priests concelebrating the Liturgy when I was there and about eight men in black riassas present in the congregation which I assume were Orthodox priests. When they were told that this is not an Orthodox practice to have so many priests attached to one small parish and they would be reassigned it created problems.
The main priest was accused of still having a Prostentant mindset and of ruling over the parish with a cult like mentality.
The group that split away is now under the Patriarch of Jerusalem and has just obtained a large building which is being converted into an Orthodox Church. There is a website with pictures but I can't remember it. It has over 400 familes, and like the Ben Lomond church its own parochial academy. Both parishes are growing and flourishing.
What I have posted is from my obversations when I was there and email correspondence with members of the original parish. So, it is only 'one side of the story'. I'm sure there are those who would object to what I wrote

OrthoMan

Dear Orthoman,

Thank you for that information and personal testimony.

I have the greatest of respect for this group and love reading their literature and publications.

They really provide a bridge between Orthodoxy and Protestantism.

And your encyclopaedic knowledge is also to be commended.

Perhaps one could refer to it as "Ortho-paedic?"

God bless!

Alex

OrthoMan's account of the celebration of the Divine Liturgy at SS Peter & Paul in Ben Lomond is accurate. I had the wonderful privilege of visiting them for the Sunday Divine Liturgy back in the mid-90's.

The reason for celebrating the first part of the Liturgy of the Word at the entrance of the church building was to imitate the Great Church at Constantinople (where they processed to get the emperor during the first antiphon, the patriarch during the second antiphon and then into the church building at the third antiphon, Psalm 94(95) which is essentially a gathering song: “Come, let us worship”).

The other interesting custom was that the kiss of peace was exchanged between the clergy and entire congregation much like it is exchanged in the Roman Mass. Some people exchanged hugs with “Christ is among us! / He is and shall be!” and others simply shook hands.

Dear Administrator,

A few parishes of ours "up here" have taken up the practice of the kiss of peace, following the practice of the Finnish Orthodox Church instituted under Bishop Paul and one or two other practices.

The kiss of peace, as you know, is still part of the Liturgy of the Armenians, the Assyrians and other Oriental Churches.

I have also heard of the practice of sending around the "Pax" or an icon of Christ to the faithful that is kissed itself.

Gogol in his exquisite commentary on the Divine Liturgy does indeed say that at the appropriate place in the Liturgy people "of old" exchanged the Kiss of Peace, men with men, women with women.

He also states that at that point ("Let us love one another") we should all look around the Church and send everyone a spiritual, internal kiss of peace and love.

As I do now to you!

Alex

Another off hand memory of my visit to the Ben Lomond Church was an Evangelical Protestant in his early forties that I met outside the church after Liturgy. He had been attending the Liturgy for about two months. When I asked him what kept bringing him back he answered -

"For the last 20 years I have been involved in Christian aid to the starving people of the world. And I have been all over the world and have seen a lot that tears my heart apart. I have been to Africa where I had to watch a mother almost too weak to walk dragging her two children towards me where I had no food left to give. I watched her make a choice and put her baby at the side of the road to try and save the other from starvation. Knowing that when she got to me I had nothing left to offer. And then I would come back to the U.S. and go to Church. What I would see and hear were a bunch of Protestants that already had a 100 times more than most people in the world. And yet their services consisted of singing a hymn and asking God for even more and more!
And then I came to Ben Lomond! And what I saw and heard were people whose service consisted of thanking God for what he had given them, praying for the sick and the suffering, for the peace of the world, for the salvation of their souls, and asking God for mercy and forgiveness. AND THATS WHAT BRINGS ME BACK!"
Remember that the next time you are at Liturgy people! Because sometimes it takes and outsider to show us what we have and is right in front of us. I have never forgotten those words and remember them often as I stand and pray during the Liturgy. It gave me an even stronger love for my church and its Liturgical cycles.

OrthoMan

[ 04-16-2002: Message edited by: OrthoMan ]

Thank you for sharing that, Bob/OrthoMan, that's the most profound thing I've heard in quite a while. I hope you won't mind if I share it with others from time to time. God bless you & your acquaintance from Ben Lomond - many years!

[ 04-16-2002: Message edited by: RichC ]

All of the above has been great, but I hope no one minds if I bring this thread back on topic by asking:

Do simplex priests (indeed, all priests) receive the power to forgive sins and/or to preach by virtue of their ordination, and are just prevented from using these powers by their bishop, or when a simplex priest is ordained, is his ordination without those powers? Or does ordination not confer those powers, but only the mandate of the local bishop?

Phil,

Every priest has the sacramental power to forgive sin, but no priest has the right to exercise that power without the bishop's mandate. Normally ordination implies this mandate but it may be withheld or later suspended.

In Christ,
Lance

From the Code of Canon Law for the Latin Church:

Can 969, Sec 1a: Only the local Ordinary is competent to give to any priests whomsoever the faculty to hear the confessions of any whomsoever of the faithful.

Can 973: The faculty habitually to hear confessions is to be given in writing (yes, folks, priestly faculties comprise a document, which MUST be in the possession of the priest!)

Can 976: Any priest, even though he lacks the faculty to hear confessions, can validly and lawfully absolve any penitents who are in danger of death, from any censures or sins, even if an approved priest is present.

Can 986 sec 2: In an urgent necessity, every confessor is bound to hear the confessions of Christ's faithful, and in danger of death every priest is so obliged.

The quotes from Latin Canon Law made me wonder...does anyone know if the whole simplex priest policy was ever formally prohibited "from now on", either before or after Vatican II?

Dear Catholicos,

The final references by NDHoosier really refer to priests who have left the priesthood to marry, but who, nonetheless are priests, and can hear confessions in cases of emergency.

The simplex thing was never prohibited, and it all depends on the bishop and his discretion.

Alex

So are Simplex Priests still ordained anymore? Someone mentioned St Solanus Casey of eternal memory.

I think it is widely understood nowdays that the former Latin custon of the "simplex priest" and its counterparts in Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy were abuses and are unlikely to be restored in the foreseeable future.

The Armenian Church stills suffers from the past custom of ordaining men without the proper academic training (or capability) to preach and hear confessions. Currently, many Armenians view the married priesthood as a blue collor profession. Educated (celibate) priests are held in high esteem, but even as married priests have begun to acquire formal education, the Church still complains of parents being very unsupportive of their married sons becoming priests.

Axios