www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization What Was Our Custom?

It seems our Metropolia is moving to a practice of ordaining mature married men to the priesthood. -- That is NOT my question --

What occurs to me, is that approximately what our practice was in the Old Country?

I have the impression that in the 19th century priestly monastic vocations were most commonly men in their twenties, if not teens.

It is also my impression that in our villages (I'm not talking about sin and vice filled cities like Presov) that we had a village priest, and when he died, we got a new village priest, ususally a married man who had been around for a while, in minor orders or the diaconate, and most likely not a spring chicken. (Sort of like poor Chuckie Windsor, waiting around for his day).

Is this accurate?

K.

Dear Kurt,

My grandfather was a married priest (ah, yes he would have been . . .).

St Andrew Sheptytsky supported married priests and even divided his vast landholdings (as he was a Count) into homesteads near villages for priests.

These priests were ordained in the married state at age 22 or 23 and were assigned parishes throughout. More mature priests became parish priests rather than "sotrudnyky" or curates.

Age never came into it.

Alex

Regarding the married clergy in the "real" Old Country, I heard the following from a priest of Rusyn ancestory:

In the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Greek Catholic priests actually became a class unto themselves. One, they were usually better educated than most of the people. Two, they were "recognized" by the government. And three, their wives were often the daughters of priests, deacons, or at the very least, daughters of cantors. It was rare that a man who was to become a priest would take a wife who was not the daughter of a priest, deacon, or cantor. In addition, priest families often begat priests. It was not very common for a man from a non-clergy family to enter the priesthood. What developed was almost a "blue blood" type of mentality. The priest that told me this also said that for better of worse, the ban on married clergy in this country put an end to the "priestly class." Although, he admits that it would have, with time, been abated in this country due to our economic and educational opportunities.

Dear Monocobyz,

You are quite right in what you have said.

My grandfather, while in seminary, married the daughter of a priest's family going back 14 generations of married priests with doctorates etc.

The description of the "closed caste" system of married priests can only be pushed so far, however.

My grandfather came from a working class background, but received financial support to do his studies directly from St Andrew Sheptytsky who did the same for many other priests from the village class.

St Andrew himself, it must be remembered, came from a very highly placed mixed Ukrainian-Polish aristocratic family. He gave up everything for his Church and people, including his inheritance that he used to support the development of not so much a priestly caste, but a priestly-based intelligentsia that would serve as a basis of Church and national leadership.

Most of the leaders of the new national revival movements in western Ukraine came from priestly families. They were the most educated, to be sure, but the married priests left a legacy of working with and defending the people, something that the soviets later tried to discredit with their anti-church propaganda.

The "priestly caste" included, therefore, members from the aristocratic and urban classes along with those from the village.

If I may say so, my grandmother's family were all priests and from priestly families, even though they all came from a wealthy family background and didn't need the priesthood to "advance" in society.

Recently, I came across the photos of my great grandmother, Alexandra (after whom I am named) and great grandfather, Fr. John, a priest who died of pneumonia during a church construction project where he caught his death of a cold.

Alexandra received a pension courtesy of the system put in place by St Andrew Sheptytsky. She spent her days in much pain, unable to walk, dividing her pension among her seven grandchildren, and spending her time largely in prayer.

She never complained about the pain she suffered, always smiled and praised God and His Mother to the end.

I see her piety and generosity in her eyes in the photo of her.

Alex

Fasinating, Alex. I dare say among us Transcarpathians, no married priest every had a doctorate, unless the Hungarians were giving out doctoral degrees at about the level of a Associates Degree in the USA.

K.

Dear Kurt,

Actually, one of the greatest married priests and leaders of the Carpathians was precisely the Reverend Dr. Auguste Woloshyn, a brilliant scholar in the area of physics. His descendant is a talk-show host on one of Canada's most popular radio networks here in Toronto.

It was actually forbidden to theology students to take up the study of profane subjects in his time during the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

He studied physics in secret and later went on to be a professor.

His status as a (married) priest of the Eastern Catholic Church and his great academic credentials inspired great esteem among the Carpathian peoples, Boykos (my family are good Boykos), Hutsuls and others in the "Marmarosh Orsag" Hungarian area. He exercised a critical position of national and political leadership as a natural leader, a fearless defender of his people and a true pastor of the Church.

Alex

[ 02-19-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

I agree with Alex. There were always exceptions to this "caste" system. Nobility or people from higher classes could easily get in, but if a young man showed potential, then he was often sent to the minor seminary and then they took it from there. Now it`s "only in America" where sons of carpenters can become priests.

I would wait with the "Saint " prefix to Metropolitan Andrei`s name. I agree with you whole-heartedly, Alex, but, like having communion with the Orthodox, we have to wait until it`s official. Is this your way to push for it faster? I guess it would work if we just declared him a saint and made Rome accept our declaration.

Daniil

"Celebate priests have a long tradition in my family. My father was a celebate priest, and his father before him..." (Anonymous)

Dear Daniil,

I've canonized Andrew Sheptytsky in my "Home Church" and now I'm trying to "extend his cult" beginning here on the Forum!

I also agree that there is really no reason why our Particular Churches could not reclaim their ancient right to declare their own local and regional saints and so many already practically regard Andrew as such.

People have been canonized by churches, parishes, parliaments, kings and universities - their cult was later approved and extended by Rome and other jurisdictions.

Blessed Fra Angelico, the great Dominican painter, was called so for years before Pope John Paul II confirmed his title of "Blessed." There are many in the Roman Calendar with saintly titles whose feasts are confirmed - but whose actual saintly status is not!

It is a fact that when the Latin Church discovers a local cult to a saint that exists for a long time, this, in and of itself, is sufficient grounds for consideration of their Beatification "Equipollently."

A large number of the British Catholic Martyrs under the English Kings were Beatified in a similar vein.

Their images were painted on the walls of the English College in Rome and the seminarians venerated these for a couple of centuries.

This fact confirmed their veneration as such within the context of the "Vox populi" principle, and their Beatification proceeded more rapidly.

Incidentally, Kateri Tekakwitha, a patron of the World Youth Day in Toronto, was similarly beatified since her historic miracles, well noted, could not be verified today, but her immemorial cult served to confirm her Beatification.

Alex

[ 02-19-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]