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Hi Michael,

I don't think that many seminarians in the Latin Church have changes of heart because of the celibacy issue... after all, they understood this requirement before they even entered the seminary. And while I'm certainly not averse to married priests, I doubt that simply allowing priests to be married would solve the celibacy shortage problem.

I belive that the more common reason is, to be blunt, the lack of orthodoxy in many Latin Rite seminaries-- seminarians find that they must go with the heretical and sinful flow, or get out. So, many of the good ones get out. Thankfully, some are tenacious enough to hang in there (sometimes they must pretend to agree with the garbage they're being taught) and get ordained. Fr. Trujillio, who co-hosts "Web Of Faith" on EWTN, had a horrible time in seminary, because of his traditional and orthodox beliefs.

Thankfully this is changing!

I think the reason a lot of guys leave the seminary is because a priest's life is not for them. I'm speaking from experience. We say one is called the the seminary, first, the priesthood second. I learned more about my Faith in one year at the seminary than I did after 12 years of Catholic school. I went to a (then) very orthodox seminary, St. Charles Boromeo (latin rite), Philadelphia--don't know how it's doing now, though. Also, there are some very orthodox Latin rite seminaries in the US--I hear the new one in Lincoln, Nebraska is booming.

You also have to understand that seminary is an intense experience. You live like a monk for many years, and you're not training to be a monk, by the way, and people act strangely when put into such situations. Men fought over tiny things like which was more proper, to kneel or genuflect during Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament--and something like this would explode into such a house-diving issue that the rector would have to step in. Just an example, extreme as it is, but you can see that seminary weeds out both evil men and good men.

We pray so much for an increase in vocations, but my big fear is, and I've said something like this before, what happens if we GET an increase in vocations? The church realistically cannot support a lot of priests, married or celibate, based on the amount of faithful currently active and paying their share. This, I think, is the real problem we're facing now. Not enough people go to church consistently, and not enough people are pitching in enough money. We need to proseltyze! The Orthodox churches are growing, we hear, to the point where membership is something like 45% converts (mostly from Protestantism? I don't know). Why isn't this happening in the Ruthenian church? The Ukrainian church in the US is encouraging the use of Spanish at some churches.... what can the Metropolia do, in addition to restoring traditions?

To cover my butt, I was raised Latin but now attend a Byzantine church. I'm trying to get more involved, because I see the need for more young people, and for those young people to get involved.

On the issue of celibacy as a 'stumbling block' to the priesthood, I've known several latin rite priests who have told me that they don't believe that they were called to celibacy. I also know several men who left the seminary to get married. One man told me that he felt called to the priesthood but couldn't see himself being celibate.

Of course I've also been told by women that they felt genuinely called to the priesthood so I don't know how much stock to put in this kind of anecdotal evidence.

There are many non-sacramental services which do not require a priest for observance within the eastern churches. It would be helpful to cultivate Hours, Typika, Vespers, Matins, Akathists, etc. as part of the Orientale Lumen restoration, and as a way to prepare for increasingly scarce priests.

I can see the Latin church eventually having a priest who comes periodically just to celebrate Mass, but with the understanding of reserving substantial amounts of the sacrament for use in services during his absence.

With or without readily available clergy, worship will continue.

I agree that the number of Latin seminarians who decide to leave over difficulties making a commitment to celibacy is not great. My only thought was that they need not give up hope of being a priest if they find an interest in the Byzantine church. I hope I didn't come across as latin bashing or celibacy bashing, it was just an idea to help the Byzantine church a wee bit.

Even a few new candidates would be a big help.

Michael

We've restored both Sunday matins and Saturday evening vespers in our parish. Are other parishes in the metropolia doing or contemplating the same?

I went to a (then) very orthodox seminary, St. Charles Boromeo (latin rite), Philadelphia--don't know how it's doing now, though. Also, there are some very orthodox Latin rite seminaries in the US--I hear the new one in Lincoln, Nebraska is booming.

Yes, I was there in 1978. But much has changed. I don't know of anyone who left because of celibacy. I'm still celebate.

Cadidates for the Archdiocese of Philadelphia (Latin) are required to spend a year in spiritual development, sort of a novitiate, because many are lacking the basics of Catholic belief.

A friend who left the seminary told me that obedience was a bigger obstacle than celibacy. Maybe celibacy isn't the problem, or at least, not the only problem.

Almost every service can be adapted for use as a Reader's Service without a priest. The community can still meet and pray, have study and fellowship, etc. in the absence of a priest. Many Orthodox missions have been started in this way.

When you get people praying together things will happen.

That spiritual year for Philly and Allentown seminarians.... I'm still not sure what's up with that. I know it changes men, because I've seen many of my friends come out of the spiritual year either very excited or ready to leave. I think the purpose is just to force the men to live a very spiritual, monastic life (no locks, almost everything in common), and they do a lot of pastoral work, too.

I'd agree with the obedience thing, too... however, there are other things at work, too, like the fact that you usually live at the seminary, and for an older man, that might be hard. Also, you don't really get paid, but you have to pay sometimes for room/board/tuition, plus all expenses, and you can't get a job. For example, I've got a LOT of student loan debt, how would I pay that off as a seminarian (defer, I guess), but then as a priest, on a priest's salary? For many men, I think being a priest is financially difficult, and not just because of greed or a fear of poverty.

I would also agree that there are many services where a priest isn't needed. Also, deacons can fill many roles in the Byzantine (and Latin) church.

Dear Charles,

Celibacy or obedience, it all boils down to our sinful inclinations against self-discipline, I say.

If someone doesn't want to live under obedience in a seminary or monastery, then he will be forced to live under obedience as a husband.

Either way, we guys lose!!

Alex

John asked if other Metropolia parishes are adding non-sacramental services. The answer is yes. My parish re-introduced Vespers on Saturday evenings over a year ago. We also do the Third Hour prior to Divine Liturgy on Sunday. During the week, Divine Praises are offered some mornings, and there is a Wednesday evening Divine Liturgy sometimes, unless a holy day observance preempts that in some fashion.

The decision to go with Vespers rather than a regular Saturday evening Vesperal Liturgy had to do with fears that having 2 liturgies per weekend would result in 2 de facto congregations. That's what often happens where multiple liturgies are held. Included is the blessing of the breads, however, which does require a priest, I believe. Litiya is offered within Vespers according to the typikon only.

We also have Royal Hours several times a year, and numerous non-sacramental services during Holy Week.

To introduce Matins on Sundays will likely require more cantors. There is a lot of preparation necessary that is harder to come by outside the seminary or a monastery.

Your last comment, IMHO, may in fact be the problem, ie, forming men to live a monastic life for about 4 years (or more) who will not live a monastic life. Today's parish priest does not live the life of a monk. Whereas the monk has his brothers of the monastery to provide support, to whom does the parish priest look for support? Instead today's parish priest typically lives the life of a quasi-hermit. When the day is done to whom does the solitary priest confide?

Having said this, I certainly applaud and praise our parish priests for all the work (sometimes thankless) they do for the faithful.

Jim, sounds like the divine praises are flowing from your temple too!

Since we're on the Mystery of Holy Orders, I wonder about the renewal of the diaconate in the Byzantine Catholic Church.

We're blessed to have two wonderful deacons who bring a greater depth and direction to our worship.

Father Deacons, any thoughts on your ministry of diaconia and how it relates to renewal in our Church?

All ... what do deacons bring to your liturgies and services?

In Christ,

John

I've always been a bit baffled by the seminary process. Part of the reason I resigned years ago was that what we were taught about practical matters were not helpful. For example, we led a nearly monastic life, but were not training for the monastery -- they told us it was to build friendships or something with our brother priests, but at St. Charles, we were from about 12 diocese or so. Also, we had classes on finance and stuff, but were told not to worry, because someone else would do that (which was far from true in my diocese). The theology was great, however.