www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Father Thomas Hopko's Lettter

djs,

So are you saying that you agree with His Grace's assessment that Father Hopko's remarks are "an unconscionable and mob-inciting RANT"? If so, how?

Gordo

It is such a shame that the OCA are in this mess. Fr Hopko's letter reflects one very frustrated man. Prayers for him and for his Church.

DJS
What do those points have to do with Orthodox tradition?
Stephanos I
They are concerned more with a good finacial running of the Eparchy and with common sense norms of management?

I can tell you from personal experience of a priest who was put in charge of a diocesan school with no oversight, and it was a disaster.

While I don't necessarily condone Bishop Tikhon's specific language and "rant" in this case, I agree with djs, in that there is certainly much more to this story than the snippets here portray, and a history and complexity is present which none of us really know in its fullest extent.

Bishop Tikhon has most definitely been a staunch defender of adhering to the received liturgical tradition, of adhering to the canons, and also of the larger rights of the bishop to actually govern and not to be bound to a hyperdemocratic approach to running the Church, which minimizes or even eliminates any real administrative authority an individual Bishop may have.

His points about the current system not working -certainly have creedence. I also believe Bishop Tikhon to be correct, albeit unpopular, in the face of a growing modernist, anticlericalist movement among many of the laity in his defense of the canons. If the insinuation is that Bishop Tikhon believes no misdeeds or mistakes have been done, that is certainly not the case (i.e. his letter to Metropolitan Herman of March).

I reiterate my larger statement that we continue pray for all of the OCA, and learn from all of the challenges in this sad affair. We outside of the OCA cannot let ourselves be pulled into one "camp" or another, but realize, as Andrew has said, the problems are deep-seated, have been brewing for many years, and we need to continue to help with our prayers for God's will be done over the entire situation.
FDD

I think Fr. Dcn. Diak has captured the situation perfectly.

Is Fr. Hopko's letter a rant? Well, what is the context. I linked to this letter a while ago, seeing it as a frank assessment of the state of the OCA that that might be considered by others who were frank in their assessment of the BCC, but idyllic in their view of the OCA.

But Fr. Hopko wrote his letter in the context of a dispute about reporting and financial safeguards on certain discretionary accounts. This dispute had already gone red-hot and led to very serious divisions in the synod. In that climate, yes, it could be termed a mob-inciting rant.

I believe the intinial intent of this thread was to see if certain points made by Fr. Hopko could be pertinent to the various Eastern Catholic Churches here in America. I don't think Gordo intended it to turn into a thread about the OCA Scandal. Correct me if I am wrong.

I am sure many of us have been reading the OCAnews.org website and other mailing lists that are dealing with the situation. Suprisingly, I haven't seen much discussion about it here on this Forum.

Perhaps there should be a seperate thread devoted to it?

I feel that Fr. Hopko's letter should be viewed in this light: Read into the message, not the messenger. He brings up many excellent points that can be used for us Eastern Catholics and the many problems we face in our respective churches, no?

And please lets not discuss too much about Bishop Tikhon; it might attrack his attention. I have a strong feeling he lurks here and do y'all really want him to sign up and post messages here that most won't even be able to understand? :p

Plus, I feel, that since, he, Bishop Tikhon, not to be called, or referred to, as, among other things, +BT, uses many commas, and big words that we, the faithful, and, lurkers, and, hertics, might not know, well? well? no?

In all seriousness, I suggest we stay on the original topic and start a new thread on the OCA Scandal.

Commending all to Christ's Love,
-ukrainiancatholic, Cantor in the St. Nicholas Eparchy of Chicago and the West; The Ukrainian Catholic Archeparchy of Philadelphia and the United States.
And unto us He hath given eternal life: let us adore His third-day
Resurrection!




(how many will get the joke???)

Dear Fellow members of this list, I read these things by Fr Hopko, and have read some of his writings. It is unfortunate that this is happening, but some of this they, either by attrition or negligence brought on themselves. As a reference to the 'grass is greener' saying, consider some things. NOTE: this is from a convert to Orthodoxy viewpoint.

We must remember that evil that is right in your face is mostly easy to discern, but, if it slips in thru the side door, and slowly erodes your confidence and resolve, by the time you detect that damage...like termites...the erosion is sometimes...(and I'm a carpenter)..very great.

Nevertheless, may the Lord have mercy on our waywardness and faithlessness, and give us strength for the road ahead. We have much the same common enemy, the evil one. Thanks for time, what ye thinks?..send a message, Mik S Bohom

uc,

I followed your post up until this point but not much beyond. My point was indeed to hope that we could look together for solutions to the issues brought up by Father Hopko or to learn from each other to address common solutions. Certainly not everything on this list applies to the BCC. And my comments were not intended as a blanket indictment of the BCC...only that there were points where we might have common needs or gaps that could or should be addressed somehow.

But your specific comments about Bishop Tikhon threw me a bit...

To FDD's and djs' points, certainly we do not have the full context of either the letter or Bishop Tikhon's reaction. My speculation re: his comments as "a bit of a reaction to someone pointing out the elephant in the living room, perhaps?" was just that - speculation. Given the way it was portrayed on the website, I do not think I was too far off. At the same time, many of the issues broached by Father Hopko are ones that, it would seem to me, should be addressed in an open way rather than dismissing them. To djs's point, however, Father Hopko's comments may be a bit of the proverbial "kitchen sink" if they were made in the context of SOLELY addressing the financial scandal.

I certainly would echo FDD's comments that we should pray for our OCA brthers and sisters and hope that we are able to learn from them as they work through these difficult issues. Without idealizing the OCA, there are certainly many things that we can learn from them.

Gordo

I read Father Thomas's letter as indicating that the present financial crisis in the OCA is part of a larger spiritual crisis, and that an essential element in the solution must be to address the situation holistically. Mutatis mutandis, the same applies to the Greek-Catholic Church.

Incognitus

I wish this discussion had not started on the Forum. This is not the stuff of which bridges are built between the east and west. Those who want to know more about the OCAs difficulties can find more than enough sad news on other websites without our focusing on it here, too.

I got it uc! ;-)

I don't get it!

I get it, I just don't think it's funny.

This board, in many respects, rises above the childish and un-Christian behavior that we see, say, on the Orthodox-Forum, where His Grace, Bishop Tikhon (DOW) is the favorite topic for denigration. I would suggest that your comments are wildly out of place because 1) you do not know the man, and 2) you're not in the OCA.

Priest Thomas Soroka
St Nicholas Church (OCA)
McKees Rocks, PA

Christ is Risen!

I have to agree with Father Thomas and a few other posters regarding the above statement. Our Forum is known for being able to discuss things in charity. I in no way wish to supress news of the situation, but I will not tolerate people making comments that are uncharitable towards other posters or people involved in the situation.

If a proper discussion on the original question posed in the starting post can not be had, it reflects a lack of Christian maturity and charity. No one likes to be kicked when they are down, and we should not be reading into things that may or may not be there and trying to kick them.

I remind all of this in posting to this or any other thread in this forum.

In the Risen Christ,
Father Anthony+
Administrator/Moderator

( Bishop Tikhon has announced his retirement effective November of 2006, per the ocanews.org website. )