www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West The Filioque problem...and how to fix it...

The Words of Saint Gregory Palamas, Orthodoxy's greatest theologian since the schism:

"It is impossible for us to participate in the knowledge of God's essence, but we can know and acquire exprience of His energies. Likewise the Holy Spirit as essence proceeds from the Father alone, but as energy He is sent by the Son and also from the Son. The existence of the Holy Spirit, His manner of being, is one thing, and His disclosure is another." Saint Gregory Palamas

Zenovia, very good words indeed.
Sounds like something both sides can agree on.
And that is most likely what the Holy Fathers meant by the Holy Spirit procedes from the Father (as the sole source of his existence) through (gr. dia) the Son as to his mission.
Stephanos I
St Gregory Palmas intercede for us before God's throne of grace and mercy for the communio all true Christians seek, may it become a reality in our lifetime.

Now let's explain what Saint Gregory means. His 'disclosure' means what we experience through the Holy Spirit In other words, his enlightenment, his Grace, his comfort, etc.

By disclosure, I would also asume this would include the 'Word' coming from Jesus, as well as the comprehension of the 'Word' that came after Jesus went to His Father.

So all our experiences of the Holy Spirit then, would be coming from the Son, since we heard the "Word' when He was on earth, and He then had to go to heaven in order for us to feel His (Holy Spirit's) comfort and strength, and to give us comprehension of the 'Word'. Again, it would be His disclosure that we would be experiencing, so it has to be from the Son, or rather from the Father through the Son.

As essence then, it would mean the very existance of the Holy Spirit, which would be part of God.

Posted by Father Gregory:

"Alice, I really honestly believe that some bishops, priests, and laity in the Orthodox Church actually LOOK for points of difference, in order to have something to justify their being separated. In other words, there are those who ENJOY the separation and the 'fighting'---so sad as to be pathetic. Our duty (it seems to me) is to find the essential things that are common to us (which are the VAST majority of things) and find a way to honestly dialogue about the lesser things and try to understand the language and mentality of those separated from us. It is our 'spirit' that needs conversion, I think? We don't have His spirit...or His desire to be 'one-in-Christ' and that is sinful (I believe) and VERY sad."

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Dear Father Gregory,

You said a mouthful, and you certainly are correct. The nit-picking started though, when the Real Estate problem started in the Ukraine and Eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet Union.

I think though, the basis is fear. Fear of becoming inconsequential when united with a larger entity. Kind of like a store preferring to retain it's individuality, rather than uniting with a larger company.

There are also the fundamentalists, and let's not forget the converts, that have had anti-catholicism imbedded into them for years.

But mostly it is the leaderships and priests. If it was not so, why is it that the majority of Orthodox are not even aware that the problem with the Filioque has been solved. Certainly spiritual unity is something that has been desired by the majority of the Orthodox laity for many years - - at least by the Greek Orthodox one's.

A very similar view was reached over 400 years ago by Metropolitan Michael of Kyiv and his fellow Bishops. From the Union of Brest:

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

Dear Friends,

Let me try to clear up one aspect that seems to be alluding in the posts above:

Father Stephanos stated:

The purpose of my essay/thesis is to show that there is an eternal and ontological aspect of the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son. Temporal mission (sending a divine Person in time) is with respect to created being. #2 in the first post is independent of created being. Without #2 (eternal manifestation) in my first post, is to make a hard and fast distinction between the Economic Trinity (temporal mission) and the Ontological Trinity (The hypostatic existence of the Persons from the Father). This much is true with respect to created being. But I think this is a mistake because it doesn�t take into account the interpentration, perichoresis, and �loving� will in and through the Persons�which happens regardless if God had created anything at all. This is the part that is lacking often (or forgotten) in Orthodox Triadology. Please see the second post on this thread as I buttress this argument from a quote from Fr. Vladimir Lossky. The idea of ETERNAL manifestation (but not hypostatic existence) of the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father through the Son is what the Latins can (and should) piggy back on, and is the whole thrust my essay.

Daniel

Thought this might be of interest:

From the North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation, Oct. 25, 2003, Washington, D.C.

IV. Recommendations

We are aware that the problem of the theology of the Filioque, and its use in the Creed, is not simply an issue between the Catholic and Orthodox communions. Many Protestant Churches, too, drawing on the theological legacy of the Medieval West, consider the term to represent an integral part of the orthodox Christian confession. Although dialogue among a number of these Churches and the Orthodox communion has already touched on the issue, any future resolution of the disagreement between East and West on the origin of the Spirit must involve all those communities that profess the Creed of 381 as a standard of faith. Aware of its limitations, our Consultation nonetheless makes the following theological and practical recommen�dations to the members and the bishops of our own Churches:

- that our Churches commit themselves to a new and earnest dialogue con�cerning the origin and person of the Holy Spirit, drawing on the Holy Scriptures and on the full riches of the theological traditions of both our Churches, and to looking for constructive ways of expressing what is central to our faith on this difficult issue;


that all involved in such dialogue expressly recognize the limitations of our ability to make definitive assertions about the inner life of God;

that in the future, because of the progress in mutual understanding that has come about in recent decades, Orthodox and Catholics refrain from labeling as heretical the traditions of the other side on the subject of the procession of the Holy Spirit;

that Orthodox and Catholic theologians distinguish more clearly between the divinity and hypostatic identity of the Holy Spirit, which is a received dogma of our Churches, and the manner of the Spirit�s origin, which still awaits full and final ecumenical resolution;

that those engaged in dialogue on this issue distinguish, as far as possible, the theological issues of the origin of the Holy Spirit from the ecclesiological issues of primacy and doctrinal authority in the Church, even as we pursue both questions seriously together;

that the theological dialogue between our Churches also give careful consideration to the status of later councils held in both our Churches after those seven generally received as ecumenical.

that the Catholic Church, as a consequence of the normative and irrevocable dogmatic value of the Creed of 381, use the original Greek text alone in making translations of that Creed for catechetical and liturgical use.

that the Catholic Church, following a growing theological consensus, and in particular the statements made by Pope Paul VI, declare that the condemnation made at the Second Council of Lyons (1274) of those �who presume to deny that the Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father and the Son� is no longer applicable.

We offer these recommendations to our Churches in the conviction, based on our own intense study and discussion, that our traditions� different ways of understanding the procession of the Holy Spirit need no longer divide us. We believe, rather, that our profession of the ancient Creed of Constantinople must be allowed to become, by our uniform practice and our new attempts at mutual understanding, the basis for a more conscious unity in the one faith that all theology simply seeks to clarify and to deepen. Although our expression of the truth God reveals about his own Being must always remain limited by the boundaries of human understanding and human words, we believe that it is the very �Spirit of truth,� whom Jesus breathes upon his Church, who remains with us still, to �guide us into all truth� (John 16.13). We pray that our Churches� understanding of this Spirit may no longer be a scandal to us, or an obstacle to unity in Christ, but that the one truth towards which he guides us may truly be �a bond of peace� (Eph 4.3), for us and for all Christians.
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AMEN!

In Christ, our unity,
Alice