www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West What will happen to ROCOR?

Greetings all,

In the event that the ROC and ROCOR continue with fraternal dialog, it seems possible that they may actually set aside any differences and unite.

If so, what will really happen at street level?

Will the rank and file follow their hierarchs in this?

Will the priests of ROCOR obediently acknowledge the new order of things? Will the monasteries go along? Do they have a choice?

Is the interest in this coming from the ground up or from the top down?

I would appreciate anyones's take on this.

MichaEL

Some speculate that ROCOR in the U.S. will become a diocese of the OCA. I don't know if this would be acceptable to ROCOR, but only time will tell.

In Christ,
Anthony

As a person who is looking into entering Holy Orthodoxy through ROCOR, becoming a diocese with in the OCA is Completly Unaccpetable and ROCOR would agree, I say this for a few reasons which I will not talk about here.

In Christ+
Daniel

If you go to the St Euphrosynos Cafe site, a ROCOR forum, you will see that there is a lot of opposition to reunion. No doubt it will result in more division, which in turn will eventually result in another division and so on ad infinitum .
I am somewhat troubled by what I see as religious indifferentism on this forum, at least in regard to Orthodoxy. In fact, if a Catholic leaves communion with the successor of St Peter, even for Orthodoxy, it is a tragedy. It may appear purer "over there" but believe me there are plenty of the same problems [ok, maybe not the same liturgical problems] as in the Catholic Church, plus a wealth of new problems. If you don't believe me, watch what happens to ROCOR in the coming months and years.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I know of at least one ROCOR priest who is favorable to the union, though he is a convert. He said that the ROCOR is slowly "weeding out" the "crazies" and that the Synod no longer has a reason to exist. In the end, each one communes the other's faithful, according to their circumstances. So if you allow me a somewhat cynical comment, they are both Russians in their make-up, so isn't that enough to guarantee their eternal salvation?

Arturo

P.S. The ROCOR is the Orthodox jurisdiction I have the most contact with, and I love them to pieces in spite of their stubborness.

Dear Friends,

Well, I predict that the majority of the ROCOR will reunite with the Moscow Patriarchate which is, truth be told, its Mother Orthodox Church.

There is no need for ROCOR to become part of the OCA and we know that there were (and still are?) what were called "Patriarchal Parishes" in North America composed of people who preferred to be directly under the Moscow Patriarchate.

I also predict that converts to ROCOR may possibly excommunicate their bishops and metropolitans over the reunion with the Moscow Patriarchate . . .

I also predict that no one in the reunited Russian Orthodox Church will give a flying katiushka nor will His Holiness the Patriarch lose any sleep over it.

Alex

Alex is very correct. There are already Patriarchal parishes in the US as well as a Patriarchal Exarch.

It would make much more sense and be likely be much more palatable to the ROCOR folks to simply become part of the diaspora Patriarchal church, not the OCA. If the ROCOR was forced to reunite with the OCA, it is likely that some HOCNA-type offshoots might emerge.

If I was ROCOR that's what I would be rooting for , and a couple of ROCOR clergy I have discussed this with are also leaning this way, IF it happens. One monastic I have spoken to is VERY opposed to any reunification directly with the OCA and his monastery feels similarly.

The 'deal is not cut yet' as there are still some issues to be resolved, but likely they will be resolved eventually.

This has already happened in the case of ROCIE over ROCOR's preliminary discussions with the MP.

ROCOR, clergy and laity, are simply too conservative to unite with the OCA and the OCA is too liberal to accept them as they are.

Completely out of the question.

In my opinion, the OCA offers more correct approaches to the reception of converts and other Christians into Orthodoxy as opposed to the common ROCOR practice of "rebaptizing" mostly everyone. ROCOR tends to see no "shades of grace" outside of the canonical Church, but the OCA generally will recognize "that which is of God" such as RC baptisms, chrismations, and ordinations.

On the other side, the OCA has been reinterpreting and ignoring some of the canons (as a concession to feminist pressures within) regarding the reception of eucharist during a woman's monthly cycle and churching of mom's and babes prior to 40 days. Some OCA bishops are also giving their presbyters the green light to "unofficially" commune the Oriental Orthodox, but not serve with theuir clergy. These practices are equally absurd and the ROCOR will have no part of them.

In Christ,
Andrew

What does ROCIE stand for actually, and who might be the primary constituents of it?

Is it a monastic group? or possibly convert parishes? I'm just curious.

Also, I noticed that of the hierarchs that went to Russia, only one was from the U.S.A.

Are the hierarchs of ROCOR of one mind on this?

Thanks,
Michael

Russian Orthodox Church In Exile

In Christ,
Anthony

Dear Friends,

If an ecumenically-minded, "with-it" group of Russians ever form a Church, they might call themselves "ROC-ON!"

O.K., have a nice day . . .

Alex

Well said, Daniel. It's very tragic.

Logos Teen

For the life of me, I don't know why so many ByzCaths are concerned with the healing of an inner ecclesial problem within the Orthodox Church, specifically one which prayerfully will result in the reunification of two parts of the Russian Orthodox Church: the ROC-MP and the ROCOR(ROCA).

The splinter ROCiE (Russian Orthodox Church in Exile), or Mansonvillites, is in schism from the ROCOR, much like the earlier HOCNA and the later ROAC (Suzdalites). The ROCiE's titular First-Hierarch is the elderly retired First-Hierarch of the ROCOR, Metropolitan VITALY. All of these sects--ROCiE, HOCNA and ROAC fall outside the Orthodox Communion because of their sinful schisms.

According to the terms of the Tomos of Autocephaly granted by the ROC-MP to its American daughter, the Orthodox Church in America (OCA) in 1970, the ROC-MP may not create any new parishes/dioceses on the canonical territory of the OCA. This was agreed before the thought of the possibility of a ROC-MP/ROCOR reunion occurred. Pastoral care for what will eventually be former ROCOR parishes on autocephalous OCA territory must still be worked out, but the ROC-MP has unofficially asked the OCA to create specifically ethnic Russian dioceses headed by former ROCOR hierarchs to take spiritual charge of these within the OCA if and when ROC-MP/ROCOR reunion occurs.

OrthodoxEast

Perhaps because we might want to join up?

Or maybe just because we love them!

I personally rejoice whenever schisms seem to be on the mend, even among those who cannot understand or appreciate my position. I know those in the ROC don't care for much ByzCaths but that doesn't mean we must be mutually disagreeable.

Thanks for answering my questions!
Are you feeling better these days?

In Christ,
Michael