www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West What will happen to ROCOR?

What about Catholicism is "hush hush" these days? If anything things are exaggerated. Catholicism has its problems, to say the least, but it remains catholic . If you doubt this take a trip to Rome, or for that matter any urban parish on a Sunday: you will see people of every color and hue, of every ethnic background and personal temperment, united in worship. Sometimes they don't necessarily worship at the same service -like the parish I once attended in DC which had an early morning Chinese service, a midmorning service, largely African American, and a noon Tridentine Latin Mass. However, if one of the Chinese parishoners slept in he was welcome at either of the other Masses.
I have yet to hear a cogent explanation of Orthodox unity or Catholicity that can compare; rather I hear tales of Orthodox believers greeted with suspiscion outside of their ethnic enclaves.

you hear tales??? You are welcome to any Orthodox parish to "come and see"

What slanderous nonsense. And you wonder why most Orthodox are hesitant to discuss union with Rome!


Michael

Okay, Brian, can you, as an OCA member, walk into a ROCOR parish and receive communion? Or a Greek Orthodox parish?
And Sarum. though your profile does not indicate which jurisdiction you belong to, can you cite an Orthodox church that demonstrates the kind of catholicity that I describe?
I am not saying any of this out of ill will; this is just my experience in trying to understand Orthodox ecclesiology. I really get the feeling of overwhelming confusion!
And if you want anecdotal tales of why Orthodoxy is even more screwed up than Roman Catholicism [though the problems, like the numbers, are smaller in scale] just ask...

Daniel,

Might I suggest that you learn something about Orthodoxy? You are continuing to misrepresent her teachings and customs. Your posts seem to be most uncharitable.

To answer your specific questions:

1. In general, any Orthodox Christian may partake of the Holy Mysteries at any other Orthodox parish. A Greek Orthodox may communicate in an OCA parish, a member of the OCA may communicate in a parish of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church. In some cases, these members may also communicate in a ROCOR parish. Since there is a continuing separation between ROCOR and the Moscow Patriarchate rooted in the communist era of the Soviet Union the status of ROCOR is considered �irregular�. The parallel is not exact but one can make a very rough comparison with the relation of the SSPX and the Catholic Church. Also, please keep in mind that in many parts of Orthodoxy the custom of going to confession just prior to receiving Holy Communion is the norm. People who are visiting another parish don�t often approach to receive the sacred Mysteries because they had not received the Sacramental Mystery of Confession. I have visited a lot of Orthodox parishes over the years. It is my experience that those who call ahead and ask the priest for direction are welcomed to partake of the Holy Mysteries.

2. Is Orthodoxy �screwed up�? No. But if you are looking for a perfect Church you are never going to find one. The perfect Church doesn�t exist. Churches are made up of sinful people. We try our best not to sin but keep falling down. The Church � especially in the Sacramental Mysteries - provides with the strength and guidance to keep trying.

Can Orthodoxy be confusing? Definitely! The array of ethnicities and jurisdictions of Orthodoxy in America can indeed be confusing. This overlapping of jurisdictions is a circumstance of history and pretty much an American phenomena. I have no doubt that in a generation or two all the various ethnic jurisdictions will merge into a single jurisdiction. In the meantime it is fair to note that one can compare the existence of the numerous ethnic jurisdictions in the Americas to the existence of the numerous ethnic Byzantine and other Eastern Catholic jurisdictions in America.

Admin

Dear Administrator,

I agree with you, but I'll add that the cultural diversity of Orthodoxy, including Oriental Orthodoxy, is what recommends itself most to mainstream Canadians up here.

That is why I sometimes can't understand where you "English guys" in the U.S. are coming from.

Multicultural Orthodoxy is only difficult to understand for some Anglophones, especially Americans who have difficulty, according to the British, with proper English as well.

Multilingual = speaks many languages

Bilingual = speaks two languages

Unilingual = Anglo-Saxon . . .

Have a great day - I am!

Alex

Slava Isusu Christu!

I wholeheartedly agree, Brother Alex, but don't you think that, in common practice, the cultural diversity leads to a jurisdictional nightmare amongst the Eastern Churches in the New World, both in and out of communion with Rome?

I look around in my own city of Baltimore and see strong cultural diversity amongst the Roman Catholic parishes: St. Leo's is staunchly Italian while Holy Rosary holds Masses in Polish. St. Alphonsus has a strong Lithuanian population and a Mass in that language. We even have a church dedicated to the Holy Korean Martyrs that has 3 Masses in Korean and Our Lady of La Vang has a Vietnamese Mass! Each ethnic parish also generally has its own particular devotions, as well.

Yet with all this diversity, there is still one bishop and with all the liturgical abuse and sometimes goofy theology aside, there is still one bishop. The jurisdictional nightmare amongst our Eastern churches truly is a cause for scandal, Catholic and Orthodox.

In Christ,
mikey.

If I reported the details of things that many people know, then it would be gossip. Yet I have had communications with many people including people involved first hand in many different situations and I know for a fact that infighting goes on in the BC Church. It doesn't prove the BCC to be false, but it does show that you can't use "disunity" to try and disprove Orthodoxy.

The ethnic cultural stuff you mention is highly exaggerated and does not need a response since what you describe is not true.

anastasios

Dear Mikey,

I agree that Catholicism can be as multicultural as Orthodoxy, but with less jurisdictional problems.

However, I personally don't see what the big deal is about.

Yes, I know that our canonists here do.

But so what if there are bishops galore?

Even we Ukrainian Catholics have three bishops living in Toronto!

In addition to our bishop Vladyka Stephan, we have Bishop Emeritus Cornelius and Bishop Roman Danylak (who has a website: www.heartofjesus.ca [heartofjesus.ca]

When our priest says that the bishop will be ordaining a deacon next Sunday, it's anyone's guess which bishop will show up for the ordination. . .

And I frankly like the other two bishops more than the one we have now.

Alex

I apologize for the tone of my remarks last night; I'm afraid I got a bit irritated at the slams against the Catholic Church and I am also troubled when Eastern Catholics see no problem with Catholics becoming Orthodox. To me, however much I might love Eastern worship, it is always a tragedy. And, yes of course I know that no church is perfect, that was exactly my point.

Dear Daniel,

That's O.K. Big Guy!

As for Catholics becoming Orthodox, if we could stop them, we would!

Heaven knows, I've given it my best shot sometimes . . .

But perhaps God calls people to be Orthodox? Have Catholics ever denied that Orthodox are the true Church as well?

Alex

Alex,

thank you for your good remarks. I certainly felt like a previous poster, that my becoming an Orthodox Christian was a fulfillment of my Catholic faith and especially as a "baby" Eastern Christian. I will always cherish my upbringing in the Latin-rite Church and especially as a Byzantine Catholic for about 15 years (it was NOT a snap decision!!!) One of the things becoming Orthodox has given me a chance to do is to help get rid of some of the prejudices some Orthodox have towards Eastern Catholics and I am thankful to God for that!

As I understand it the Orthodox churches are seen as true Churches, but in imperfect communion with the successor of St Peter, who is the guardian of truth and unity, and uniquely appointed shepherd of the Church. Thus I cannot see it as a good thing when Catholics become Orthodox, though I certainly understand the appeal.
On the other hand, I rejoice when Protestants become Orthodox!
It does bug me when dissatisfied Catholics idealize the Orthodox churches, which was the point of my postings; I have a lot of evidence that they have all the problems [except liturgically] that Catholicism has PLUS juridical confusion...

Dear Daniel,

I think that in order for us to judge the Orthodox we need to walk in their shoes for a bit.

Many Catholics I've known who became Orthodox are so happy today . . .it's sickening .

I went to school with a Catholic friend who served long hours in Church and then went into a Catholic seminary.

For whatever reason, he is now a priest of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada serving far-out parishes in Western Canada - there was an article with photo about him last year in our local secular paper!

As for the papal doctrines, they aren't an issue if you don't believe them to be an issue.

And certainly they didn't seem to be an issue in the first millennium of Christianity.

Alex