www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Help needed--is it possible to work in RC seminary without reading filioque in oath ?

What shocks me is the unwelcome information that the hideous oath in question is still used at all, anywhere, let alone imposed on people! As I remember the text, it places the Code of Canon Law on a higher priority than the Gospels, which is reason enough to refuse to take it. Ugh!
Practical Advice: find someone who can write koine Greek (Alice, are you listening?), re-do the oath in the same format but with a reasonably acceptable text, and insist on taking the oath in Greek. If you use the modern Greek pronunciation, I promise you that no one else on the faculty will know what you are saying.
Incognitus

No problem and do not expect any. I know a couple of Orthodox clergy who teach in Catholic seminaries. If you like, I will ask one about this but I suspect this is a tiny matter and if you are concerned just take it to the guy in charge. If you are beaten and thrown into prison - please let me know where to send the cookies.

Here in New England there is no bias between Orthodox and Roman Catholics on any level. But if you begin with a chip on your shoulder - you will automatically be treating them as less than you would want to be treated. People who demand my respect usually get far less than my respect. I offering respect to everyone (almost) until they demand it of me (which is the same as telling me they are better than me). Be an example of Eastern brotherhood, understanding and compassion.

-ray

Hello:

I presume this is the oath being referrenced in this thread:

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Profession of Faith and Oath of Fidelity
ON ASSUMING AN OFFICE TO BE
EXERCISED IN THE NAME OF THE CHURCH

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF FAITH
EFFECTIVE MARCH 1, 1989
NOTE OF PRESENTATION

The faithful who are called to exercise an office in the name of the church are required to make the profession of faith according to the formula approved by the Apostolic See (cf. Canon 833). In addition, the obligation of a special oath of fidelity with regard to the particular duties inherent in the office that is to be exercised--previously prescribed solely for bishops--has been extended to the categories named in Canon 833, Nos. 5-8. As a result, it has become necessary to provide for the advance preparation of texts suitable for this purpose-updating them with a style and content more in conformity with the teaching of the Second Vatican Council and of documents that followed.

The formula of the profession of faith repeats in its entirety the first part of the text that has been in effect since 1967 and that contains the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (cf. ACTA APOSTOLICAE SEDIS, 59, 1967, p. 1058). The second part has been modified and subdivided into three paragraphs so as to distinguish better the type of truth and the corresponding assent that is sought.

The formula of the oath of fidelity on assuming an office to be exercised in the name of the church--understood as being complementary to the profession of faith- -is enacted for those categories of the faith listed in Canon 833, Nos. 5-8. It is a new composition; in it provision is made for some variants in Paragraphs 4 and 5 for use by major superiors of institutes of the consecrated life and societies of apostolic life (cf. Canon 833, No. 8).

The texts of the new formulas of the profession of faith and of the oath of fidelity will take effect starting March 1, 1989.
I. PROFESSION OF FAITH

(Formula to be employed henceforth in cases in which the profession of faith is required by law.)

I, N., with firm faith believe and profess everything that is contained in the symbol of faith: namely,

I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: By the power of the Holy Spirit, he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. I believe in the one holy catholic and apostolic church. I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

With firm faith I believe as well everything contained in God's word, written or handed down in tradition and proposed by the church--whether in solemn judgment or in the ordinary and universal Magisterium--as divinely revealed and called for faith.

I also firmly accept and hold each and every thing that is proposed by that same church definitively with regard to teaching concerning faith or morals.

What is more, I adhere with religious submission of will and intellect to the teachings which either the Roman pontiff or the college of bishops enunciate when they exercise the authentic Magisterium even if they proclaim those teachings in an act that is not definitive.
II. OATH OF FIDELITY ON ASSUMING AN OFFICE TO BE EXERCISED IN THE NAME OF THE CHURCH

(Formula to be used by the Christian faithful referred to in Canon 833, Nos. 5-8)

I, N., on assuming the office __________ promise that I shall always preserve communion with the Catholic Church whether in the words I speak or in the way I act.

With great care and fidelity I shall carry out the responsibilities by which I am bound in relation both to the universal church and to the particular church in which I am called to exercise my service according to the requirements of the law.

In carrying out my charge, which is committed to me in the name of the church, I shall preserve the deposit of faith in its entirety, hand it on faithfully and make it shine forth. As a result, whatsoever teachings are contrary I shall shun.

I shall follow and foster the common discipline of the whole church and shall look after the observance of all ecclesiastical laws, especially those which are contained in the Code of Canon Law.

With Christian obedience I shall associate myself with what is expressed by the holy shepherds as authentic doctors and teachers of the faith or established by them as the church's rulers. And I shall faithfully assist diocesan bishops so that apostolic activity, to be exercised by the mandate and in the name of the church, is carried out in the communion of the same church.

May God help me in this way and the holy Gospels of God which I touch with my hands.

(Variations of the fourth and fifth paragraphs of the formula of the oath, to be used by the Christian faithful referred to in Canon 833, No. 8).

I shall foster the common discipline of the whole church and urge the observance of all ecclesiastical laws, especially those which are contained in the Code of Canon Law.

With Christian obedience I shall associate myself with what is expressed by the holy shepherds as authentic doctors and teachers of the faith or established by them as rulers of the church. And with diocesan bishops I shall gladly devote my energy so that apostolic activity, to be exercised by the mandate and in the name of the church, is -- with provision made for the character and goal of my institute -- carried out in the communion of the church.

NOTE: Canon 833, Nos. 5-8 obliges the following to make the profession of faith: vicars general, episcopal vicars and judicial vicars; "at the beginning of their term of office, pastors, the rector of a seminary and the professors of theology and philosophy in seminaries; those to be promoted to the diaconate"; "the rectors of an ecclesiastical or Catholic university at the beginning of the rector's term of office"; and, "at the beginning of their term of office, teachers in any universities whatsoever who teach disciplines which deal with faith or morals"; and "superiors in clerical religious institutes and societies of apostolic life in accord with the norm of the constitutions."
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God bless,

Rony

Dear Rony,

Oh!

This is quite different from the old oath!

(I have it in Old Slavonic from a 19th century Euchologion/book of needs published in Lviv - it definitely has the Filioque, among other things . . .)

Personally, I don't see how taking this oath without the Filioque represents any sort of "improvement" from an "Orthodox in communion with Rome" perspective!

A holy Pascha to all!

Alex

Dear Incognitus,

Surely you doth protest too much here . . .

Alex

Dear Alex,
You may be right at that.
Incognitus

St. Peter's Basilica is the official basilica church of the Patriarch of the East.

The official basilica church of the Patriarch of the West is St. John's Lateran

Joe Prokopchak
a sinner in much need of God's mercy

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

DECLARATION

"DOMINUS IESUS"
ON THE UNICITY AND SALVIFIC UNIVERSALITY
OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE CHURCH


INTRODUCTION

1. The Lord Jesus, before ascending into heaven, commanded his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to the whole world and to baptize all nations: �Go into the whole world and proclaim the Gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; he who does not believe will be condemned� (Mk 16:15-16); �All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the world� (Mt 28:18-20; cf. Lk 24:46-48; Jn 17:18,20,21; Acts 1:8).

The Church's universal mission is born from the command of Jesus Christ and is fulfilled in the course of the centuries in the proclamation of the mystery of God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and the mystery of the incarnation of the Son, as saving event for all humanity. The fundamental contents of the profession of the Christian faith are expressed thus: �I believe in one God, the Father, Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the prophets. I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come�.1

{ snip }
_________________________________________________

Full text available at:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...faith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

Joe Prokopchak
archsinner

The oath I took was without the filioque. it should not be a problem for any Eastern Catholic to take it without it.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Join the club of people who get carried away.
I am a founding member.

-ray

Dear Friends,
I teach at a Roman Catholic University. I received my "mandatum" from my own bishop, which was perfectly acceptable to the Roman Catholic University. Perhaps, if you inform the seminary of your canonical status they will accept the oath be taken as demnanded by your own Bishop. Your given address states that you are in La Crosse, WI. Are you aware that there was once a Melkite Greek Catholic Church there in the first half of the 20th century? I hope you have found one of the two Byzantine Catholic Churches in Minneapolis. (One in the Parma Eparchy; one in the Eparchy of St. Nicholas of Chicago)
God bless,
the unworthy priest,
Fr. Vladimir

Dear Friends,

Please don't get me wrong, as Gaudior has said, taking any oath is not our tradition to begin with.

But in our Eparchy, those parishes that recite the creed without the Filioque can be counted on one's fingers.

And if I told my current bishop I wanted to recite the Creed without the Filioque . . . well . . . I would know what he'd say to me . . .

At least, I have a pretty good idea what he would say to me!

It is just great that you Ruthenians and Melkites are so Eastern!

More power to you guys!

Perhaps you could send us some missionaries up here?

It's no use for another Ukrainian to try and teach Eastern theology to Ukrainians.

They'll just call you a "Russifier" and a "Vostochneek" in a most pejorative manner.

Da?

Alex

Those who did not recognize the source of my last posting may wish to note that I plagiarized it from H.L. Mencken. Heaven forfend that I should fail to give credit where credit is due!
Incognitus

Dear Alex:

What is a "Vostochneek"?

God bless,

Rony

Dear Rony,

A "Vostochnyk" (which I deliberately pronounced with an ethnic accent - the Onion Dome is really getting to me, you know ) means "Easterner" in Russian and it is sometimes used among some Byzantine Catholics to define those BC's who are very strictly "Orthodox" in worship and tradition etc.

At a conference I attended, the discussion during the break centered on who was pro-Eastern and who was pro-Western.

One professor broke in to say, "Never mind, I'm definitely a 'vostochnyk' and that is that!"

God bless,

Alex