www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Grace: The Eastern Concept

Could someone please explain to me what the difference is between the Latin concept of Grace and the Orthodox or Byzantine concept? Our Rosary prayer and study group is doing a compare/contrast of the traditions of the East and West; thanks for the help.

I think our friend Anthony Dragani delved into this in one of his rarer and longer posts. He quotes a lengthy passage from a book on this one, citing a section that deals with the comparison between Thomist and Palamist theology on this issue.

http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?Pgnu=1&Pg=Forum25&recnu=8&number=224946

In IC XC
Samer

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: SamB ]

They have not accepted and incorporated the teachings of St. Gregory Palamas. The Saint in a nut shell clarified the differences between the divine essence and the divine energies which also goes back to the Cappadocian Fathers. Although many western Christians personally accept this theology it was & is not fully integrated within western Christiandom. Barlaam the Calabrian was the proponent of the essences being created and denied the Divine Light being uncreated. St. Gregory did a marvelous job in safeguarding our direct approach to God through the uncreated energies and upholding theosis.
When we say that the saints have been deifed by the grace of God, we are saying that they have had a direct experiece of God Himself. They know God in His energies, not in His essence.
Well known examples of divine energies are the Burning Bush, the Uncreated Light of Mt. Tabor and the Eucharist.
The idea of created divine grace is attributed to the scholastic theology of St. Thomas Aquinas. This scholastic understanding has had negative percussions in subsequent centuries within western Christiandom. It's no surprise looking at the history of western Christianity to read the demise of the understanding of the Uncreated Divine Energies(i.e. the loss of the sacramental belief & reverence in the Eucharist).

Robert,

What are you referring to..."loss of sacramental belief & reverence in the Eucharist"? Can you show me in the _Catechism of the Catholic Church_ where this has happened?

For those who believe there is some giant distinction between the East and West on this (divergence of theology, yes; contradiction, no)take the time to read the link given by SamB above which quotes Fr Boyer's book on Spirituality.

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: DTBrown ]

Hi Dave,
I believe you may know what I mean. Referring to the Catechism does not reflect reality. There seems to be an apparent break with Holy Tradition. In the Roman Catholic Church, there are your eucharistic layminsters that resemble some of the Protestant ministers. Once I saw the "Host" fall to the ground by an old layman who bent down to pick it up as if it were no big deal. I am of the opinion that this lack of holiness & reverence is rampant. The Protestants do not fully comprehend uncreated grace within the Eucharistic sacrament. Here is no difference with the Roman Catholics despite the papal official writings. I am expressing what I have known and what I have witnessed. The problem I have tried to express is relected in the poor understanding and acceptance of Uncreated Energies as elaborated by Saint Gregory. Rome's understanding of Uncreated Grace and the clarification by St. Gregory have not been fully incorporated within Catholicism whereas it has in Orthodoxy. The sacraments in the West are not viewed as they are in Orthodoxy as Uncreated Grace. Nor are the sacraments in Orthodoxy limited to seven as in Catholicism.

In other words, you are saying that your own perception (reading into people's minds as to their view of "holiness & reverence") takes precedence to the way things really are. This isn't "reality" at all.

The use of eucharistic ministers can be abused. But to go from that and say that somehow negates the Catholic doctrine on the Real Presence is nonsense. Have you ever read St Justin Martyr's account of the Eucharist? At this point in time there was no reservation of the Eucharist at church. They took the Eucharist to their homes afterwards. Are you going to say they didn't really believe in the Real Presence also?

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

Dear Rum,

Perhaps the old man loved the Lord who in His Sacramental Form was on the floor and bent to pick up the Master. He might not have known Palmas or Acquinas like many in the Latin Church. Like the majority of those in the Catholic Communion, He did know the Lord and provided Him a service.

And the fault in this is?

I admire your concern for the status of the Catholic Church. May we reflect in our daily lives the respect that you evidence. Perhaps participating in a celebration of the Latin Liturgy or an Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament and seeing the love and reverence exhibited there would reassure you!

Do not be afraid!

Steve

JOY!

Good Evening fellows,
Dave, perception does not mean reading minds(I wish). The use of Eucharistic ministers from amongst the laity is demeaning and has no Eastern equivalent. Roman approach is very irritating in terms of administration, option of receiving "consecrated wine" with or without the "Host", and no insistence on prior fasting. The modern approaches are contrary to past historical practices. Do you think that Roman Catholics have any ideas on whether the Eucharist is created or uncreated divine energy?
Many Roman Catholics hardly see and understand mystery as the Orthodox see it. That's all I am saying. I will pray they may return to our mysterious approach as known in Orthodoxy.

Not to be uncharitable but do you really think the majority of the world's Orthodox have any idea what you are talking about. I don't think it is inaccurate to say that nominalism in the Orthodox Church is any less prevalent than in the Catholic Church. That being said I don't think it is fair to use anecdotal evidence as proof of what the Catholic or Orthodox Churches teach. Let's look instead at their traditions, the writings of their saints, their leaders and (in the Catholic Church's case) the Catechism.

-Mark Adams

Hi Mark,
If we look at issues from the view of Holy Tradition then Catholicism has drifted and out of bounds. Believe me, most Orthodox know what I am talking about. It those people who are not in communion who do not whether they're nominal Orthodox or non-Orthodox. Thanks for the feedback.

Robert,

First of all, I've noticed you've mellowed out a lot. I appreciate that.

Second, I of course believe in the essences/energy thing. BUT the whole issue of created grace: I tried to locate official Catholic teachings, or doctrinal works that are semi-official, and have been having a hard time finding a positive defense by RC's of something approaching "created grace". It almost sounds like a straw man to me. Would you please show us where RC's teach this?

Thank you,

Dustin Anastasios

Irritating for whom? For those who are obsessed with how another church conducts itself even though it has no bearing on them?

Hi Dustin,
I haven't been drinking much Mellow Yellow but I am still me. Anyways, if you would read the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas he makes the distinctions and emphasis which begs to differ with the Eastern Church. Try reading the Summa Theologiae. St. Thomas's theology of grace was the impetus that lead to the distortion of grace during the Reformation period. I hope this helps.

That is why I am Orthodox! Praise be to God.

[ Could someone please explain to me what the difference is between the Latin concept
of Grace and the Orthodox or Byzantine concept? Our Rosary prayer and study group is
doing a compare/contrast of the traditions of the East and West; thanks for the help.]

From 'The Complete Book of Orthodoxy by George W. Grube

Grace (the Orthodox Concept) - The name is given to the assistance by a loving and compassionate God to those who seek His help. Grace also refers to the mercy of God and his abundant good will to men and women of all ages. In the New Testament grace refers to the overall "economy" of salvation through Christ's redeeming death, ressurrection and ascension. There is little debate over the need for this loving care and help, but much discussion is given as to the manner in which this grace is bestowed. As a supernatural gift of God, grace is freely given to men and women to help them gain eternal life (Ephesians 4:7).
Grace also means the gifts of the Holy Spirit which are meant for the sanctification of all. It is this power which sanctifies, gives life and perfects that which is in the Church for the benefit of her members. The Greek word "charis" is often used for "grace" and is similiar to the term "dynamis" or power. Therefore, the Fathers of the Church see grace as power given by God to transform lives. This transformation takes place over the lifespan of an individual since we are continually in the process of "being saved" - as the precise translation of I Corinthians 1:18 states. Some reformed christians would teach that "being saved" is an instant thing and it is necessary to "work out your salvation" which directly contradicts the teaching of St Paul in Phillippians 2:12-13, "to work out your salvation in fear and trembling."
However, Orthodox Christians respond by knowing that all good things are given to us by God and we must cooperate with His grace. St Symeon the New Theologian sums up this great concept by saying, "If he (who claims the name Christian) does not bear in his heart the conviction that the grace of God, given for faith, is the mercy of God...if he does not labor with the aim of receiving the grace of God, first of all through Baptism, or if he had it and it departed by reason of his sin, to cause it to return again through repentence, confession, and a self-belittling life, and if, in giving alms, fasting and performing vigils, prayers and the rest, he thinks he is performing glorious virtues and good deeds valuable in themselves, then he labors and exhausts in vain" (Homily Number 2).
In summary, the Orthodox view of grace is that God wants loving sons and daughters, not unwilling slaves. Therefore Orthodoxy rejects any doctrine which lessens man's free will. We are "fellow workers" with God (1 Corinthians 3:9) an effort named "synergy", and we approach fellowship with His help. We work out our salvation together, although God's assistance is of much greater importance than our own efforts. Orthodox Christians believe that God's grace calls out but compels no one. St Cyril of Jerusalem taught, "It is for God to grant His grace, and our task is to accept that grace and guard it."
Other Fathers taught: "God never draws anyone to Himself with force or violence, He wishes all men to be saved but forces no one" (St John Chrysostom). "It is for God to grant His grace, our task is to accept that grace and guard it" (St Cyril of Jerusalem).

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock, if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will enter" (Revelation 3:20).

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Grace (the western concept) - Those christians in the camp of St Augustine see mankind as fully evil and in desperate need of God's grace, since they are unable to do any good whatsoever on their own. This thinking would leave all the work to God. Then there were those who felt that man was not in need of God's grace. Pelagius erroneously taught that man is easily capable of choosing good over evil and able to take the steps necessary on his own to approach God. Then with God's grace one could be reconciled with His demands.
St Augistine's teaching seems to infer that certain men and women are "predistined to salvation and damnation" and he sought to soften this by insisting on various types of grace before conversion (prevenient) and God's grace after conversion with which man cooperates (subsequent grace). Local councils (such as Orange 529 A.D.) tried to settle the question by saying that prevenient grace was necessary because of man's condition caused by the fall, and that mankind could cooperate with God's grace (subsequent grace) and avoid the logical consequences of predestination. The reformers took various sides, such as Calvin who mistrusted the Orthodox view of cooperation with God (synergy) and insisted on a strict view of predestination along with those like Arminius who challenged Calvin's teachings.