www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Kyivan Patriarchate

Even if the high backs come from us Ukes, I still think they are ugly and bulky.

Diak said:
"Our hierarchs need to have the courage to take the initiative. We should simply proclaim the Patriarchate by an act of the Synod and send a representative (or the Patriarch himself) to Rome to proclaim the communion of our Patriarch with Rome. Proclaim communion, not submission."

Very well put.

Dear Ality,

"Thank you JPII for boosting our morale and beautifing our saints. It was a good thing. But should we not be doing that ourselves?"

Yes, but our Saints are Saints throughout the world.

"We cannot build up our numbers if we keep our faith as an ethno-cultural Ukrainian Museum
What is the "Golden Age" of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (1596-present)?"



ALity

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: ALity ][/QB][/QUOTE]

Wow! An interesting Golden Age. A little perspective for you about that Golden Age. When those DP's came over from Ykraina, they began a nation-wide ethnic cleansing of all things not "Ukrainian". As a result many offspring of First-wave Ukrainians and there families left our church. And the hierarchy did nothing to stop it.

Sure people probably goose-stepped to all things Ukrainian, but it was precisely at this time that the focus of our church dramatically shifted from it's Christian identity to it's Ukrainian identity. This is the main problem we are stil fighting in our churches today. Which hold primacy? Your Christian faith, or your Ukrainian ethnicity.

This was the time frame when V and O's split from the Cathedral in Chicago. Ukrainians broke into the rectory at the Cathedral and put one priest in the hospital.

Sure Ukrainian schools, plast, and sum where thriving, but it is in this time frame that we lost our true vocation as Christians preaching the Gospel.

In the 195-'s we came very close to reuniting with the Ruthenian Church. The DP's were a contributing factor to this not happening.

Golden Age, or Age of Golden Scandal?

I hope you will still be fond of me, if as a priest, God Willing, I wear a high back in your church!

AmiHb to our Bishops doing their own thing. I purpose a formal divorce from the Oriental Congregation.

ALity

ALity said: "Wow! An interesting Golden Age. A little perspective for you about that Golden Age. When those DP's came over from Ykraina, they began a nation-wide ethnic cleansing of all things not "Ukrainian". As a result many offspring of First-wave Ukrainians and there families left our church. And the hierarchy did nothing to stop it."

I don't totally agree with the ethnic cleasing part because it was the first wave who founded many churches. The reason why the made everything super Ukie was because they suffered so much during the war and before hand. They came weary to a free land where they could live in freedom as a Ukrainian Catholic and not have to worry about your life being threatened. They took advantage of the greatness of American freedom.

ALity said: "Sure people probably goose-stepped to all things Ukrainian, but it was precisely at this time that the focus of our church dramatically shifted from it's Christian identity to it's Ukrainian identity. This is the main problem we are stil fighting in our churches today. Which hold primacy? Your Christian faith, or your Ukrainian ethnicity."

Again an over reaction to the joys of freedom of speech and religion. They meant well in my opinion. As a response to you last question, this is how I put it. I put the primacy to my Eastern Catholic faith as it is practiced in the Ukrainian(Kyivan)Catholic Church.

"This was the time frame when V and O's split from the Cathedral in Chicago. Ukrainians broke into the rectory at the Cathedral and put one priest in the hospital."

This I have heard many times before but each time the story is different.

"In the 195-'s we came very close to reuniting with the Ruthenian Church. The DP's were a contributing factor to this not happening."

They wanted to go to a church where they could keep thier Ukrainian identity. Many churches were and still are the center of Ukrainian cultural activity.

"Golden Age, or Age of Golden Scandal?"

When attedance is up, schools are packed, kids in church, I say look on the bright say. Golden Age. Age of Golden Scandal makes it seem like these people are evil. These people surrfered and lost many family to the war by way of the UPA or by being active in their church, or by just being Ukrainian.
(My grandmother lost 3 brothers in the UPA, one who was a seminarian, and her father who was a deacon. Martyrs of the UGCC and martyrs of Ukraine.)

"I hope you will still be fond of me, if as a priest, God Willing, I wear a high back in your church!"

Ugly. Plus all of my parish wouldn't want it and our current pastor wouldn't allow it. You can get away with it at St. Elias were they welcome those kinds of influences. Sorry bud, but we welcome a 3 bar pectoral cross

ukrainiancatholic

p.s. I have you hierarchal Liturgy book you left in the Holy Place at the dedication. i will amil it to you.