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Mar 25th, 2025
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Originally posted by Elitoft:
As you can see from the note above your's that our Mr. Todd is not interested in challenging his own opinions. Eli, You know nothing about me, so please refrain from saying that I am unwilling to "challenge my own opinions." I was a Latin Catholic for almost 17 years, and during that time I was a Thomist. I have studied the works of men like Garrigou-Lagrange, Etienne Gilson, Jacques Maritain, H. D. Gardeil, Henri Renard, Gregory Rocca, R. P. Phillips, W. Norris Clark, Maurice de la Taille, David Burrell and other Thomist authors, along with studying Thomas' own works, the Summa Contra Gentiles, the Summa Theologica, the Quaestiones Disputatae de Veritate, the De Ente et Essentia, etc., and yet after all of that study -- through a painful process of intellectual criticism -- I changed my views and came to support the Byzantine position on various doctrines of the faith (e.g., the Trinity, Christology, the filioque, etc.). So please do not presume to know what I have studied and what I have not studied. Now with that said, what I want to see from you is a cogent argument in support of your position, and nothing more or less will do. If you are not up for a real debate, then perhaps you should not be posting here. I have a question for you, because you keep asserting that Thomas holds that man participates in God's "power," please supply the pertinent texts that support this assertion. You need to also address Thomas' view of the divine simplicity, because for Thomas all that is in God is identical with the divine essence, and so there is no "real" distinction between God's essence and His power. Now if you think that he makes a real distinction between the divine essence and the divine power, prove it by citing things from Thomas' own writings. Blessings to you, Todd P.S. - One of the reasons that I come to this forum is that it actually has real theological debates. One of the things lacking in Catholic life at the present time is theological discussion. That being said, I hope and pray that the Byzantine Forum remains a place where people can debate issues of importance, even if -- in the end -- they do not agree with each other.
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Originally posted by Pavel Ivanovich:
When you join up with the Pope you sign up for the lot. It is a very clear line. You are either on one side or the other here. The same applies to all churches. You are either in or out. There is no middle ground. It's like getting married the inlaws come with the wife/husband. You go with the Pope the deal includes that in matters of faith and morals he is infallible etc.etc.
ICXC
NIKA Since the end of the Second Vatican Council the Popes have been telling Eastern Catholics to be Eastern. I take that seriously.
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Eli,
Just for your information, I am not "Mr. Todd," I am Mr. Kaster.
God bless,
Todd
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Originally posted by Apotheoun:
Eli,
Just for your information, I am not "Mr. Todd," I am Mr. Kaster.
God bless,
Todd Thank you Mr. Kaster. That is a more accurate and comfortable form of address, for both of us, I am sure. Eli
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You know nothing about me, so please refrain from saying that I am unwilling to "challenge my own opinions." I was a Latin Catholic for almost 17 years, and during that time I was a Thomist. As a vocation or as an avocation? There are also many who have moved in precisely the opposite direction. The process of intellectual conversion is extremely interesting to me. I have studied the works of men like Garrigou-Lagrange, Etienne Gilson, Jacques Maritain, H. D. Gardeil, Henri Renard, Gregory Rocca, R. P. Phillips, W. Norris Clark, Maurice de la Taille, David Burrell and other Thomist authors, along with studying Thomas' own works, the Summa Contra Gentiles, the Summa Theologica, the Quaestiones Disputatae de Veritate, the De Ente et Essentia, etc., and yet after all of that study -- through a painful process of intellectual criticism -- I changed my views and came to support the Byzantine position on various doctrines of the faith (e.g., the Trinity, Christology, the filioque, etc.). So please do not presume to know what I have studied and what I have not studied. Oh I have been aware that your reading over the years must have been prodigious. I rarely question what people read. Most often I am astounded by what they do with it. The point of all of these kinds of inquiries for me, and I think for some of the others in this discussion, is to understand what the Church teaches and to understand it in the context of the spiritual path to sanctity to which we all have been called by the Christ. So I think I will focus on that with those here who are less eager turn the discussion into debate. Also, it is a fact that all real and profitable and fair and accurate forensics have moderators and judges who can assess the quality of responses and interrupt a senseless or baseless line of reasoning. Since we do not have that here, I do not intend to engage you. Any time you would like to discuss, I would welcome the opportunity, but I won't debate you here. Eli
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Actually the Popes have been telling their Eastern Rites for closer to 100 years (probably longer) to get their act together, not since 1964.
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Orthodox Catholic Toddler Member
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Originally posted by Pavel Ivanovich:
Actually the Popes have been telling their Eastern Rites for closer to 100 years (probably longer) to get their act together, not since 1964.
ICXC
NIKA True. Some of the Popes have been very strong on that issue. +T+ Michael
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Yes they certainly did. JPII had a few words to say on the subject. Benedict XV had some many, they named the junior seminary after him at Grottaferrata.
Happy Easter! XB!
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Originally posted by Matt:
Eli,
Thank you for that informative post. I had heard of those theologians before but you related them in a way I was not familiar with.
Matt Dear Matt, You might want to try a little book written by Hans Urs von Balthasar called The Theology of Henri de Lubac from Communio Books, Ignatius Press. It is a tantalizing little book that will help to lead you into the heart of the theological genious of Catholic Theology in the 20th century. Two others whose contributions will some day become foundational in Catholic teaching on existance and being are John Paul II and Edith Stein. But this is all really for some other topic heading. Eli
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