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Many members of a Third Order can wear a lapel min. Madonna wears a cross. So what.

I had seen some pictures of a new order founded in the 60's in the Eparchy of Parma, Ohio. The nuns habits looked like contemporary airlines stewardessess. They had the NICA printed in the four corners of a cross on their hat. Well, needless to say they are no longer around. Modernization doesn't work.

My mother had a Sodality pin too, but she wasn't a nun! (Although her life would have MUCH more resembled a monastic life...than most of what tries to pass for monastic/religious these days!)

Respectfully,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory

Dear 'Little Green Coat,' One of THE points of my long post was that there is little value to the habit only for 'witness' or 'sign value'---the habit is suppose to be ASCETICAL and an aide to overcoming temptation and selfishness in a life of repentance. I fail to see the ascetial value of a pin...unless of course if it is sticking INTO one of these 'modern religious sisters'---(which I'd be glad to assist with)!

In Him Who calls us,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory

Dear Friends:

I think we are doing injustice to women religious in the Latin church if we allow a sweeping caricature to take hold.

NOT ALL women religious are monastic!

In point of fact, an overwhelming majority of women religious are uncloistered and are "out in the open" silently doing their ministry.

Bl. Mother Teresa's Order is missionary. The good Sisters are out in the streets of Calcutta and elsewhere throughout the world ministering to the poorest of the poor.

While Mother Angelica's (of EWTN) is cloistered, with a few Sisters allowed, by dispensation, to interface with the public.

The majority of the more than 73,000 women religious in the U.S. (belonging to hundres of Orders) are involved in teaching, nursing, hospital administration, social services; in running orphanages, charity outlets, and other services for the general public. These are non-monastic religious women.

Never mind the "habits." Instead, consider their "works!"

Or else, I'll call on "Sr. Euthanasia" to pay you a visit!

AmdG

Dear Amando, "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith." (Romans 3:27)

All 'religious life' in the West is an active form of monastic life---otherwise why bother to make the monastic profession of vows in the first place? Read the following: Perfectae Caritatis, Evangelica Testificatio, Essential Elements, Vita Consecrata from Rome and you will see that most American religous communities do NOT resemble or imitate these beautiful documents in the slightest!

Example:

DECREE ON
THE ADAPTATION AND RENEWAL OF RELIGIOUS LIFE
PERFECTAE CARITATIS
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965

17. The religious habit, an outward mark of consecration to God, should be simple and modest, poor and at the same becoming.

How is this being carried out by sisters and brothers in secular clothes??? With jewlery??? living in apartments outside of community??? etc. etc.

Sorry, but after 15 years as a Franciscan, you'll never convince me: I been there and done that!

In Him Who calls us,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory

Dear Amado,

Ultimately we must realize in these discourses of ours, that we all come from different experiences. Perhaps Father Gregory comes from personal experience of disappointment.

For intstance, as an Orthodox, I might get cynical about certain things Orthodox because I have experienced them, yet another, perhaps a convert might misread my upset, never seeing my experiences, and consider me scandalous...

With this in mind, let's all try to remember this as we speak to one another, and be respectful of the other's viewpoints (I am not saying that you weren't, this is just a reminder for everyone including myself). After all, we are trying to find unity as brethren of Christ!

In much love in Christ for everyone here,
Alice

P.S. Amado: I believe that His Holiness John Paul II has issued some kind of statement to the effect that nuns must wear a habit...is anyone in the U.S. listening to him anymore ???

P.P.S. Personally, I think that the orders of nuns serving in different ministries have been a blessing to the world.I think that the balance of cloistered orders (praying for the world and personal holiness) with service orders is ideal. Isn't that the whole foundation of Western monasticism...it was the monastics that kept people alive in hospitals, etc. during the dark ages when the Barbarians had taken over Rome?

Dear Fr. Archimandrite Gregory:

Thanks for your response.

Looking at the sacrificial works of so many women religious from a layman's vantage point, which I am guilty of doing, certainly is not the better way of assessing the "value" of the habits worn by "modern religious sisters."

Your observation that women religious should bear in mind the traceable link of their professed lives to the monastic way of life of old is well taken.

I think, the Holy Father, through the Vatican's
"Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life," had this in mind when he issued the instruction: "STARTING AFRESH FROM CHRIST: A RENEWED COMMITMENT TO CONSECRATED LIFE IN THE THIRD MILLENNIUM" in May 2002.

It is always a delightful surprise to know that a Priest-Monk of the Greek Orthodox Church is also a Franciscan.

(Or, is it the other way around? )

Imploring your blessings,

Amado

Dear Alice:

I agree with your observations wholeheartedly.

Latin Catholics have been exposed to the service orders too much and too often that we have forgotten about monastic/cloistered nuns!

That's why we are haunted by "Sr. Euthanasia," even in our dreams!

Amado

Father Archimandrite Gregory�s post on page one of this thread summarizes the issue of religious garb very well.

I believe that it was wrong for so many Catholic religious to abandon monastic clothing. I suspect that those groups that have abandoned monastic dress will simply die off because they have also abandoned too many other parts of religious life. The traditional religious orders are the ones growing, so eventually the style of monastic clothing they choose will become the norm.

Having said this I do believe that there is nothing wrong with occasionally updating monastic garb. IMHO it is silly for nuns to wear clothing that is purposefully uncomfortable and restricts one�s movement. Likewise, when I see a monk hindered in his work because of his robe I think that updating for practicality is appropriate. Wearing a woolen robe while helping an elderly person do yard work on a hot, humid day in August can actually be dangerous to one�s health. Garb is supposed to be unimportant. It is not really meant to be penitential. There is enough suffering in the world without artificially creating more.

I also agree with Father Archimandrite�s description of the loss of purpose of many religious groups. Monasticism is not about a specific mission (like teaching or nursing). Monasticism is supposed to be nothing more than a radical following of the Gospel. Monastic is an apostolic life, living the life of the apostles and imitating the life of Jesus. Some groups are properly called to pool specific talents to specific ministries but following Christ and working out one�s salvation should always be paramount.

Fr. Gregory,

I would gladly entrust the task of fixing the Latin Church in America into your hands--if I call the Pope and tell him about you, would you become Catholic again and take charge of things?

LatinTrad

Speaking of lapel pins: I have several. I have a red umbrella which signifies to those who know and care that I represent Citigroup. I have an icon pin of Christ Pantocrater. I have some BSA lapel pins. I even have a Lion's Club lapel pin.

Will these qualify me to enter a monestary or a convent? :rolleyes:

Dan L

Unfortunately this kind of inappropriate secularism and modernism has affected us all, not only those in the RC. I have, unfortunately, seen this with some clergy on my side of the cultural divide.

Sister Euthanasia warned us about those who have loose habits. Incognitus

All,

When I read some of the responses to this post I can certainly say that they upset and offended me. However, thank you to those who answered my questions.

First of all, in the Roman Catholic Church, not all of our religious orders are monastic! In fact some are not intended to be monastic in any way shape or form.

You see the concept of religious orders in the Latin Catholic perspective is different from that of the East. You must understand that our approach to the idea of what the role of a religious sister should be, is different.

If you are not a Roman Catholic do not lament the usage of pins instead of habits in some of our orders. Focus on the works of our sisters.

And for your edification, some orders of Roman Catholic nuns abandoned the traditional habit because it was necessary. For example the we have the Sisters of the Society Devoted to the Sacred Heart. They are dedicated to live vows of chastity, poverty and obedience. However they did not make use of habits because they sought to be more approachable to those who were alienated from the Church by nazism and communism. In fact in 1956 Cardinal McIntyre of Los Angeles, when asked if the sisters should adopt a more traditional habit stated, "Don't change. Mind my words: the Church will need you as you are."

Religious sisters are to be revered for their piety and charitable works, among so many other things. I detest comments that denegrate a sisters choice not to wear a habit.
They have given their lives in service to our Lord and His Church, we are in no position to make demands of them.

All I ask is that we support all of our sisters.

ProCatholico

Dear ProCatholico,

As you will have noticed in my posts, I try not to denegrade anyone who is genuinely dedicated to God, no matter their faith tradition. Forgive me, if in any of my posts you have thought otherwise.

As for priests in my tradition hanging around private beach clubs, or vacationing on Greek islands without ANY sign of their vocation around their neck, well it is their choice, and I am sure more physically comfortable...but it could make others uncomfortable after finding out that thir interactions with them were under the guise of them being a layperson. (I understand that some of the wives prefer that their husbands not look like priests socially...on the other hand, my own priest, I thought, looked very cool when he was grilling souvlakia for a local town's celebration day, in jeans, a baseball hat, AND a short sleeved clerical shirt complete with white collar.) Also, Father Benedict Groeschel whom we all admire and are praying for, has said many times how people have approached him in places like the airport with needs because he was wearing the habit. In any case, whether we are speaking about a sister or a priest, it is not for us to judge the content of their souls and dedication to God by what they are or are not wearing.

Let's just say, some uniforms, including habits and collars make for a more civilized and structured society. The way people dress says much about a society and about the way we care for people to think of us.

Along these lines the administrator has a point about some possible 'habit' reform. Let's remember that both in the East and the West, what we consider 'traditional' was once nothing more than the fashion of lay clothing at a particular time. This is a fascinating topic for students of fashion history. Did you know that what we consider to be some kind of religious dress for Hassidic Jews is actually nothing more than the style of hair, hat, and dress of 17th century Poland?

As for cynicism, Let's all remember that our experiences are different, and that when we write to each other, we should be as objective as possible, not letting our own experiences completely cloud our opinions or have us make generalizations.

I will try...I promise!

In Christ's love,
Alice