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For me, if the choice were between RC and EO, then � despite the howls of protest from the half of my extended family who are RC � I would have to choose EO (preferably either ACROD or Antiochian Orthodox).


~Isaac

Get ahead of the rush and do it now. It can only aid your growth in faith. It makes no sense to say this and sit on the fence. Commit yourself to Catholic or Orthodox camps because what you are saying is you are not committed to either camp.

Isaac is only answering a hypothetical question. That being said, perhaps he already sees himself as Orthodox.

As a Ruthenian, I consider myself to be an Orthodox Christian.

Then why be away from the Church that one considers to ones own. Those who are in the Catholic camp need to be there because they hold to Catholic teaching and discipline. It makes no sense to say I consider myself Orthodox and not be in that communion. There are a few who come on this forum who say if this does not happen or that occurs I am off in a particular direction. I just hope that on arrival it is the totality of the Church that they hope to join that attracts them and they are not just running away.

As I said in my previous post: I am a Ruthenian, and I am Orthodox. I do not see any contradiction in making this statement.

I often think of the situation of parishes closing and hope and pray that our Eastern Catholic churches rise to the occasion to support our beloved Church in need, but if my local parish ever were to close and with my simple response to the original question...my answer would be simple...Catholic Catholic Catholic. I am an Eastern Catholic Christian because chiefly, i believe in the teachings of the Catholic communion to be the fullness of truth and yes importantly includes being in communion with Peter. In other words, being Catholic first comes before the tradition i follow. I love the eastern tradition truly but it doesnt come before my Catholic faith. It isnt right to have the position held by some who consider themselves "Eastern Orthodox" in union with with Catholic church simply just to bridge the divide, and not for doctrinal reasons. that is "standing on the fence" I dont believe the few western rite "Orthodox" are actually trying to be Roman Catholics but in union with the "Orthodox" communion for nothing doctrinal, and only for unity purposes. I am sure they accept the position of the "Orthodox" communion in every way possible. there is no such thing as cafeteria Catholcism. what i think we all need to realise is that if you're Catholic, you should be orthodox and if you're Orthodox you should be catholic, the church is meant to be orthodox and catholic, to be just one or the other is foolish and not what our Lord intended us to be.

Pavel,

Being Eastern Catholic is about as close as I can get, in the year 2006, to being in the Church that "one considers to be one's own." For me, the Church is both Catholic and Orthodox. Since the schism of a thousand years ago, the only Churches that comes closest to that are the Eastern Catholic Churches. So, I am an Eastern Catholic.

Back to the original post: if I had to choose between one or the other, I would choose Orthodoxy because I am more of an Eastern Christian at heart than a Western Christian. But, I would *hate* to have to make that choice. It's like choosing between parents, and both parents are my parents. And, I would try to get an Eastern Catholic parish going again. Because I want both Eastern and Western Christianity to be what they once were: one Church.

-- John

Whatever happened to the possibility of being committed to both?

Eli

Aptheonon wrote "As I said in my previous post: I am a Ruthenian, and I am Orthodox. I do not see any contradiction in making this statement."

What is a Ruthenian? Where is Ruthenia? What form of government do they have? What are the demographics? What are their chief industries? What was their GDP last year? What is the population? Who is their patron Saint?
Do you mean Rusyn
Go Carpatho-Russian Saints!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, you haven't sent me any Pyrohy to my mailbox yet.... go to the town hall and read the Calling Orthodox Pyrohy thread

As I said in my previous post: I am a Ruthenian, and I am Orthodox. I do not see any contradiction in making this statement. [/QB][/QUOTE]
What is a Ruthenian? Where is Ruthenia? What form of government do they have? What are the demographics? What are their chief industries? What was their GDP last year? What is the population? Who is their patron Saint?
Do you mean Rusyn? [/QB][/QUOTE]Why do you equate the statement that one is a Ruthnian with a nationalistic claim. It appeared to me that it was a spiritual claim and not a geographic one.

There is a reason there is a reason that the Rusyns/Carpatho-Russians set up a seperate Metropolia in the United States. So, perhaps whilst you are wondering we could educate you on some history?
I realize that the term Ruthenian is the Latin usage. I can go 'round about this for quite sometime if you want us to roll up the sleeves and help you out... we're here to enlighten.
If it were a mere spiritual statement, he could have said that he was Orthodox. Attaching the word Ruthenian to it infers that there is a nationalistic/ethnic/culture/small tradition attached to the particular way the church carries out it's customs. Hence, in some instances nationalistic/ethnicity are intertwined with Religion.
And I was having fun with him... It has been reported that the patron St. of Ruthenia may in fact be St. Melk (a long standing inside joke here )

The following from the Wikipedia article on "Ruthenia"

Main article: Kievan Rus�
If the name Ruthenia has any connection to the name Rus, it is in the west generally held to derive from the Varangians whom the early Slavic and Finnic tribes called Rus' and this name is derived from the Old Norse root ro�s- or roths- referring to the domain of rowing and still existing in the Finnish and Estonian names for Sweden, Ruotsi and Rootsi. Later the name came to denote not only the Scandinavian aristocracy in Eastern Europe but also the ethnically mixed population of their domains.

Some modern scholars use the spelling Ruthenia when discussing the Middle Ages in English texts. However, the ancient state of Rus did not have a proper name apart from the phrase zemlya ruskaya, and therefore there were different spellings in different languages.

The term Ruteni first appears in the form rex Rutenorum in the 12th-century Augsburg annals. It was most likely a reflex of the ancient tradition, when the barbaric people were called by the names found in Classical Latin authors, i.e. Danes were called Daci and Germans were called Theutoni. Likewise, the Rus passed by the name of Ruteni, the form being influenced by one of the Gallic tribes mentioned by Julius Caesar.

There is a 12th-century Latin geography from France which says that "Russia is also called Ruthenia, as you may see from the following phrase of Lucan�" The original Latin text: Polonia in uno sui capite contingit Russiam, quae et Ruthenia, de qua Lucanus: Solvuntur flavi longa statione Rutheni. Earlier the Rus had been referred to as Rugi (one of the foremost Gothic tribes) and Rutuli (an Italic tribe mentioned by Virgil in the Aeneid).

By the end of the 12th century, the word Ruthenia was used, among the alternative spelling Ruscia and Russia, in Latin papal documents to denote the lands formerly dominated by Kiev. By the 13th century, the term became the dominant name for Rus' in Latin documents, particularly those written in Hungary, Bohemia, and Poland.

Sources, sources. This essay has no citations to reference material. While it may pose some correct ideas, it takes more than just reading the quoted source to gather an solid notion of the topic at hand.

Amen, Bob. I'm having some of those same thoughts. I think we must ask ourselves: is there a difference between a particular expression of faith and Faith itself?

God bless,

Chris

Yes I agree with Bob and Mat as well. We are seeing a number of 'private' definations of Church that dont line up with either of the churches official standpoint. This private picking of beliefs with 'I accept this but not that' is not something that is genuine. Eastern Rite Catholics of all traditions ARE in full communion with the RCs (regardless of what negative reports come in from various places) and no amount of pretendng will change that. Neither Catholic or Orthodox Churches believe in people being in both camps, but one or the other. So some people will need to engage in some painful decision making, as to what they will have to do next and my heart goes out to them.

We run the risk of being like the old joke where the person goes to heaven and is being shown around and asks about the screen they can see. Only to be told it is for the RCs (in the version told to me), as they like to think they are the only ones up here.