www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Roman Catholic or Orthodox ?

Nemo, in my experience at least, there is. I could think of numerous examples.

Rates of intermarriage are high in this country. We have two Catholic women in the parish I attend who have Orthodox husbands and kids who have been baptized Orthodox. They attend as if they were regular members but have never converted. There's another who comes every so often, except I think they baptized some kids Orthodox and some Catholic. I haven't asked or figured out how they decided who went which way.

I have a friend who grew up attending holidays at the RCC with his Mom's family and at the SOC with his Dad's. I work with a guy whose wife is Catholic, it sounds like attends with him rarely, but insisted their kids be baptized Orthodox for some reason. You run across this kind of stuff frequently in my experience.

People who have converted take up a kind of dual citizenship as well.

Andrew

Nemo,

Let me first say that I prefer being Eastern Catholic. I believe in its mission to be both Catholic and Orthodox, and I would not lightly give that up.

But, if my Eastern Catholic parish closed and if there wasn't another Eastern Catholic parish available, I would explore becoming Eastern Orthodox. I used to be Roman Catholic, and I became Byzantine Catholic: because of Eastern Christian spirituality (theosis), theology, liturgy and community. Eastern Christianity has become part of me and, I like to think, I have become part of Eastern Christianity. And, God willing, I will not give that up because thereby I have found my way to God. So, if I couldn't practice Eastern Catholicism, I would look into becoming Eastern Orthodox.

-- John

Dear Nemo,

Yes, I did go through a period thinking about that.

But after praying about it, I have confessed my sin and am O.K. now!

Viva il Papa!

Alex

As I can't imagine all the EC churches disappearing or being so angry as to all become Orthodox against the wishes of the Vatican or the otherwise destruction of the EC churches, I simply cannot imagine such a catastrophic situation and what I would do in response to it.

I can imagine moving to a place where there is no Eastern Catholic Church. First, I would avoid the move. But if I must, I would begrudgingly go to a RC church and would actively pursue setting up some sort of Reader's Services or even a mission. I would network with bi-ritual priests and would educate the new priest about the EC churches, theology, customs, etc. I wouldn't give up on being Eastern or being Catholic.

Orthodox!

Thanks for your response, Recluse, which is mine as well......Orthodox!!

NEMO

Alex,

LOL! It is so good to have you back after your vacation!

Gordo

Nemo,

I would most likely attend the Saturday Vigil Mass at the local RC parish, and go Orthodox on Sunday (if one was available).

I would also try to organize a regular Eastern Catholic prayer group that prayed the Typicon Service on Sunday afternoon...and try to start anew!

Gordo

I would find other Greek Catholic clergy, hopefully including hierarchs, and help organize the lay people to resist the abolition, since such a course of action would be proper in light of Church law. One is always entitled to resist an unjust usurpation of authority in the Church. There are many examples of this being done, even by saints, in the history of the Church.

Dn. Robert

Gordo,

That is a better idea than what I posted. Well said !

-- John

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this discussion seems to me to border on--or at least skate around--syncretism: the combination of two different forms of belief or practice.

I don't think any of the posters has thought about the DEEP implications of the question(s) posed or the eternal consequences of the moves that many seem to toss about so easily.

Both the Catholic and the Orthodox Church see themselves as the visible One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church spoken of in the Creed, the Symbol of Faith. To a member of either body, the act of separation from one's baptismal home is an act of apostasy--a serious sin that incurs excommunication. Now, I don't know what the current theological definition of excommunication is, but I was taught that this is more than simply the inability to participate in Eucharistic Communion at the public liturgy. It means that one's eternal relationship with Jesus Christ is cut off completely and that one deludes oneself in thinking that one can be in relationship with Christ and be so separated from His Church. Dying under this sanction is something to be feared and not approached lightly. Both Churches see this as an exercise of the power of St. Peter's Keys, regardless of the way in which they understand its exercise.

The questions that must be answered are what do I believe and what are the implications of my belief. If I believe that the Catholic Church is the Church established by Christ, what are the implications of abandoning the Church Christ has established for my salvation and for the salvation of all mankind? Equally, if I believe that the Orthodox Church is the Church established by Christ, what are the implications of abandoning the Church Christ has established for my salvation and for the salvation of all mankind? The two are not interchangeable.

In history, we have been one. And within that oneness a man could move from one area to another as he moved geographically. But that oneness is no longer the case. And until that oneness is, by the grace of God and many fervent prayers on our part, re-established, one does not move back and forth or change one's profession of faith as easily as one changes one's political party registration just to vote at the next election.

If the attraction is externals, we've all got a long way to go because we have not internalized the Latin phrase "Lex orandi, lex credidi." The specific external rituals reflect the specific internal theology of each Church. We don't toss that off as interchangeable. While the Catholic Church believes that there is little that would prevent full communion, the Orthodox Church does not adhere to that position.

For my own part, having studied the positions of each Church, I have come to the conclusion that there is far more here than simply changing one's ritual observance. With the Church there is always an eternal dimension that we ignore or trivialize at our own peril.

In Christ,

BOB

Father Deacon Robert,

I agree with your point! It would be an unjust act, which would not and could not warrant any obedience on our part. Much in the same way the Maronites several centuries back ignored the papal mandate to adopt Latin fasting practices. An unjust law is not binding on the faithful.

Gordo

I think it is the same for anyone who find s themselves too far away from their own church for one reason or another. its not the end of the world you make do. I am 720 Kms away from the nearest Melchite or UGCC church or 1.5 hrs in a Fokker 50. I attend the local RCs and when in the big smoke I go Byz again. In the meantime I keep contact with other Byz like you lot (Latins can look away at this point while we do strange and unusal hand shakes known only to the Byz ) via the wonders of the internet and and telephone. If there were Orthodox nearby I would touch base there but sadly being such a large country that is sparcely populated it is very difficult for minority Churches to minister to all as they would wish.

Orthodox, definitely.

God bless,

Karen

If you believe that now, why are you not there? You have to ask yourself what is stopping you from going where you believe you should be. If it was as simple as you seem to suggest to just go Orthodox because you dont have a close enough local Church then it makes sense you are currently attend the wrong Church. Go!....and God be with you! You will not grow in the faith with all this fence sitting.