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I was watching the History Channel last night and was shocked to here about Tzar Peter III. Apparently, Tzar Peter III was a distant member of the Romanov family. He lived in Prussia for a large portion of his life. He admired the Prussian king.

When the Tzar came to power he ordered the Russian Orthodox Bishop/Priest to wear LUTHERN garments! Fortunetly the Tzar did not last long.

Any thoughts or comments about this? Does anyone know anything else about this?

Yes, I a little of that show, Johan. I recorded the History's Mysteries episode on Rasputin after that. This year in Modern Civilizations I wrote a multi-thousand word paper on the Last Romanovs.

Yes, Peter III was born a prince in the duchy of Holstein, if my memory serves me correctly. This, of course, would explain his attachment and admiration of King Frederick of Prussia. And yes, the tsar ordered RO priests to dress as Lutheran ministers, and he had many holy icons destroyed.

He was also an incredibly immature youth and, well frankly, also happened to be an complete imbecile in adulthood.

I think I have all of the above right; I hope I'm not confusing him with another tsar. Wasn't he the nephew of Tsaritsa Elizabeth and husband of Catherine the Great?

Logos Teen

Dear Friends,

It was Peter I ("the Great") who wanted to Westernize Russia as much as possible, including Russia's Church.

It was he who imitated Western culture and preferred Western customs such as clean shaven faces et al.

We know that Peter loved the Latin language, considered "heretical" by Russian Orthodoxy at the time, and broke a number of other traditions (he never took a siesta after lunch,for example) that made the Russian Church suspicious of him.

That suspicion dissipated when he defeated the Swedes and the Kozaks at Poltava. Instead of him, the Russian Church pronounced an anathemas on the Hetman Ivan Mazeppa, an anathema that is liturgically still on the books of the ROC to this day.

His sucessors were outright Lutherans or Protestant-sympathizers who hated the Orthodox Church (e.g. the case of St Arsenius Matsievich, Metropolitan of Rostov).

Some have suggested that the reign of terror against the Russian Orthodox Church did not begin with the soviets, but with the later tsars, like Peter and Peter III.

We know that a number of forms of torture used on Orthodox clergy by the soviets were invented not by them, but by the secret Tsarist police of the reigns of those Tsars (e.g. pouring water over the naked bodies of victims as they stood on frozen lakes.)

Alex

Dear Johan & Logos:

Peter the III was the son of Prince Charles of Holstein, the nephew of Charles XII of Sweden (the nemesis of Peter the Great).

Charles married Ana Petrovna, the daughter of Peter the Great and Catherine I.

Peter III was the only child of the marriage.

Both his parents died when he was very young and he was placed under the regency of stern army officer, who made his life miserable.

Peter was raised a good German Lutheran and was destined to become Duke of Holstein.

At the time the Romanov family consisted of three members, all princess.

Tsarina Elizabeth, Peter the Great's daughter, took the throne from her cousin Ana Leopoldovna and deposed her infant nephew Ivan.

Elizabeth had young Peter of Holstein brought to Russia to become her heir.

He hated Russia, hated the weather, the court, the nobility, the army, and especially the Orthodox Church.

The Tsarina had him convert and arranged a marriage with a young German Lutheran Princess from Anhalt-Zerbst.

Her name was Sophia but when she in turn converted they changed it to Catherine.

When Elizabeth died Peter became Tsar.

Peter, always a slightly paranoid and persecuted figure, began to change things in a radically fashion.

He ordered an end to a war with Prussia, which the Russians were winning, just because Frederick the Great was his hero.

He brought whole regiments of Holsteiners and gave them precedence over the Russian army.

He filled the officer corps with foreigners and demoted Russians.

Peter held the Orthodox Church in high scorn stopped attending their services.

I had not heard of the fact that he ordered Priests to dress like Lutherans, but it would not surprise me.

Catherine, his wife on the other hand was a complete opposite.

She loved all aspects of Russia and tried very hard to become as Russian as possible.

She even had her blond, seemingly Germanic, hair dyed black so she would appear more like the natives.

Catherine also loved the Orthodox Church and went out of her way to appear devout.

When Elizabeth died, she alone held vigil by the body while all of St. Petersburg passed to give their respects.

Catherine very soon started to attract all the discontented members of the Russian court, army and church.

With their help she deposed her husband and became Tsarina Catherine II (later called the Great).

It is just another example of how culture can supersede blood, and those who are outsiders can be more than native born.

defreitas
"um friagem"

defreitas,

Sorry to be violently off topic - but "um friagem " has lost me - I think I know what it means but I;m not too sure - it could possibly be a colloquialism that is not clear to me. my Portugese is abysmally poor and I am not in practice at all so don't want to guess. Please would you be kind and PM the meaning ?

Muito obrigada

Anhelyna

Christ is risen!
Truly he is risen!

Dear all,

I also watched, "Russia: Land of the Tsars" Tuesday evening. I found it interesting how Tsar, Peter III, wanted to impose Lutheran customes (and beliefs I'm sure) on the Russian Orthodox Church. I'm glad he didn't last long! Although, couldn't they have just sent him back to Prussia?

Btw, how would you respond to a person who says that the last imperial family of Russia could never be saints because they let their people starve and live in poverty? Thanks.

A sinner,

Adam

Theosis,

Well, Peter III was from Holstein, not Prussaia. Germany was not unified as it is today, although the language, culture, and customs between the different Germanic states were similar, often identical.

Tsar Nicholas and Tsaritsa Alexandra were very holy people. Unfortunately, they were largely clueless as to the needs of their people. This cluelessness was only helped along even more by Grigory Rasputin, who shielded the Royal Family from criticism for his own personal gain and awarded his personal cronies with government leadership positions, deposing those in the government who actually did know what was going on. The bottom line is that "Nicky and Alex" did not intentionally let their people suffer. If anyone is to blame, it would be Rasputin. But honestly, I think that no one person is to blame.

As everyone knows, the last ruling Romanov family are all Passion Bearers, apparently (from "Russia: Land of the Tsars") the lowest rank of sainthood in the Russian Orthodox Church.

Logos Teen

Anastasia and Olga...my poodles ....agree with you wholeheartedly!

Dear Friends:

I don't think that Rasputin was all that influential.

He was hated by the nobility and the other members of the Romanov family because of his closeness to the Tsarina.

Rasputin's influence was due to his ability to cure Alexei of the effects of his hemophilia.

Most people in Russia knew nothing of Alexei's condition, even close family members didn't know.

Rasputin's influence came strongly into play when the Tsar took personal command of the army during the war and left Alexandra in charge of the government.

He had ministers removed etc. etc.

He was not the only cause of the dynasty's fall.

The most significant cause was the disaster of WWI.

The Russians had a million men in uniform, but could only supply a limited number with weapons.

Soldiers were sent to the front and waited for their comrades to be killed so that they could use their guns.

Hindenburg said that the Germans had to put plows on their vehicles so that they could push the Russian dead out of the way.

All in all a tragedy of historic proportions.

As to the personal holiness of the Imperial Family there can be little doubt.

But their canonization by the Russian Orthodox Church had more to do with their sufferings during the last imprisonment.

The family knew they were going to die and received it with the meekness of lambs.

That is what a Passion Bearer is.

Many people had wanted them to be proclaimed martyrs but because of their political nature a case for martyrdom was difficult to make.

Non-the-less one of the documented reasons for killing the entire family was that the people still held them in a deep spiritual reverence.

They of course were the God-anointed Tsar and Tsarina, and were his shadows on earth.

If you search around the forum, you will find a great deal of material previously written on this topic.


defreitas

Christ is risen!
Truly he is risen!

Dear all,

Thanks for the input . I have an icon of Holy Royal Martyrs, Nicholas & Alexandra, and their five children in my bedroom. Very special.

A sinner,

Adam

Defreitas,

I wholeheartedly agree with you that WWI was more disastrous for the Romanovs than Rasputin's presence ever was.

It's also true that the nobility and the serfs alike hated him. The tsaritsa (and the tsar some extent) were virtually alone in their support of him. Naturally, they had to be: he cured Alexei many times.

But Rasputin's influence cannot be downplayed. He was, in some manner or another, partly responsible for the Romanov downfall. As I said in my previous post, if anyone is to be blamed it should be Rasputin, but no single person is really to blame.

Logos Teen

Dear Logos Teen:

You give over due attention to Rasputin.

The nobility hated him because of his close relationship with the Empress.

Many believed that he was taking advantage of her or worse, her lover.

The Empress was very afraid of the Russian nobles and kept her family completely away from the court.

She was afraid that they could become a bad influence on her children.

The Grand Duchesses therefore did not attend any of the balls given during the winter seasons.

The Imperial family cut themselves off completely from St. Petersburg society and they hated the (German) Empress for it.

Nicholas II was eventually given information about Rasputin's disorderly life (he liked women, drinking, etc.).

After a particularly nasty occurrence involving a woman, the Tsar finally had him exiled to his home village in Siberia.

He was recalled again after many months, when the Empress sent him a telegram begging him to help Alexei, who was dying.

The peasants did not hate Rasputin they were completely fascinated that such a person could become so close to the Imperial family.

In a letter to the Tsar Rasputin actually warned the Emperor that he was going to be killed.

He told the Tsar "If I am killed by peasants, by the common people, you and your family will continue to reign in Russia for hundreds of years, but if I am killed by your family, by the nobles then all of your family will be killed and the Empire destroyed".

As you know, Rasputin was murdered by members of the Tsar's family (a cousin and a nephew) and by members of the Russian nobility.

Rasputin is a very complicated figure to understand, hated by some, loved by others.

I hear that people in his village still speak highly of father Grigory.

All in all, I am very impressed by your knowledge and understanding of this period in history (my favorite) and I wish you well in all your endeavors.

If you would like to continue your Russian studies try reading the classic book by Massie "Nicholas & Alexandra".

I read it as a teen and it was enormously important to my intellectual growth.


defreitas

Defreitas,

I read Nicholas and Alexandra in preparation for my term paper, actually. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I was under the impression that the serfs disliked Rasputin as well because of the "questionable" relationship between he and Alexandra (obviously I don't question their relationship, but some do). As you seem to be the veritable resident historian on this subject, I'll leave that up to your superior knowledge!

Yes, I read about Rasputin's "prophecy" to Nicholas. Of course he was murdered by the tsar's own nephew, Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich, the Romanov playboy and ex-fiance of Grand Duchess Olga, and Felix Yussupov, homosexual and heir to that famous family's enormous fortune. Eighteen months later, Tsar Nicholas & Co. were being lined up in Ekaterinburg to be executed.

One of my classmates actually did Rasputin for her semester term paper. She would probably know more about the "Mad Monk" than I would. Regardless of the importance of his role in the Romanovs' downfall, I find him to be incredibly intriguing, much moreso than Tsar Nicholas II.

Logos Teen

Christ is risen!
Truly he is risen!

Dear all,

Interesting discussion on Rasputin! I'll add my thoughts.

Most historians today recognize that Rasputin's "healing powers" were more of the power of persuasion and hypnosis than any divine power. In simple, the doctors were bothering Alexis a lot during his attacks of hemophilia, and this made him bleed worse. Rasputin would come and sooth the boy by his soft talking and having him look unto his eyes. The only time that Rasputin *seemed* to have healed Alexis through divine power was during Alexis's horrific attack at Spala, Poland in 1912. Tsarina, Alexandra sent Rasputin a telegram asking him to pray for the boy, and Rasputin responded with the message that the boy would be healed. It turned out that he was healed, and Rasputin was lauded by the Imperial Family (Alexandra at least) as the savior of the situation and a true man of God. Was Rasputin giving a message of God to the empress? Nope, what else could he say? He was too far away to get to Alexis, so he said he would be healed and crossed his fingers that he would, and he was healed.

Tsar, Nicholas after the beginning of World War I broke all ties with Rasputin. Although, Rasputin was able to have much influence on Alexandra while Nicholas was off and on at the front with the army during the years of 1915-1917. The reason for Nicholas cutting all ties with Rasputin was the "prophecy" that Rasputin had sent to him before Russia entered into war with Germany and Austria-Hungary. Rasputin in his prophecy said that monarchy in Russia would be destroyed if Russia entered into war. Nicholas resented this unparalleled interference of Rasputin in affairs of state, and turned again him pretty much.

What done most damage to the Russian monarchy (what damage was left to do after Bloody Sunday, the bad impression the Imperial Family had given the people, World War I) was Rasputin's manipulation of Alexandra in the choice of ministers for the Duma. *sigh* Overall, Rasputin played only on a small part in the downfall of a dynasty who's fate was sealed when a timid Tsar and unpopular Tsarina came to power in 1894.

A good book to read on the story of Nicholas & Alexandra is “A Lifelong Passion.” “A Lifelong Passion” is a book that deals with the day-by-day life of the Imperial family and their friends, taken from their diaries and letters to each other. Btw, Prince, Felix Yussoupov was bisexual, not homosexual. Not that it really matters now . Have a nice day!

A sinner,

Adam

Dear Friends:

WOW, you kids are really something, what great posts.

I am of the opinion that the true miracle worker was Alexandra herself.

Rasputin only provided an outlet for her anxiety.

When he said, "everything will be alright" she believed it wholeheartedly.

Her oppression was immediately lifted and she was able to calm her son, which then helped him to heal.

It is said that count Fredericks once told the Tsar about Rasputin's indiscretions and all he said was "better one Rasputin than a thousand hysterics".

Interesting character but not a saint.


defreitas